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Shingle View Drop Down
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Posts: 111 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Shingle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stifled Development
    Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 5:18pm
Does the relationship between the RS association and LDC stifle mainstream dinghy development? For instance, the RS400 has been a fantastic craft but technology has moved on. I can’t help but feel that LDC will wait for something to impact on sales then counter it with there own version or wait until sales of a product diminish.  But then a vast majority of people feel safe with the RS brand because the association will manage a classes circuit and residules are good. I do appreciate people are quite happy to class race older designs, but my direction is at those who want to go faster in something widely available. Don’t get me wrong LDC are successful, but is it right for the British sailing scene?
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Look at Nationals attendances http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=44 I see only two RS classes in the top 20. They are just one element in the scene. 
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 6:26pm

I used to be the Chairman of the RS Class rules committee and in that period the rules development was driven by the sailors.

LDC and the designer (mostly Phil Morrison) do have a right of veto on any change but will generally support what the sailors want.

LDC never stood in the way of a rule change on commercial grounds.

You could argue that they could do the opposite to what you are suggesting ... i.e. introduce a change which all the owners then have to retro fit giving them selves a nice peak in sales; but they have never done this as far as I know.

Rick
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Posts: 1599 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 05 at 8:12pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

LDC and the designer (mostly Phil Morrison) do have a right of veto on any change but will generally support what the sailors want.

Same for a SMOD class association I helped run for a while and pretty understandable commercially. 
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Posts: 1502 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 05 at 7:22pm
The RS400 is such a wonderful design it will persist in popularity for many years yet.  However technology moves on and there is a big development just around the corner - carbon rigs.  A cabon rig makes a huge difference and the faster the boat the bigger the difference.  Soon a carbon rig will be cheaper than ali, then is the time for some hard decisions.
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Posts: 628 		Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 05 at 9:20pm
Development comes from the development classes!
Eventually this gets watered down into production boats, and made easier to use, and cheaper etc ( and much more popular!) . The one-designs are 'modern' and the hottest latest thing for a while.... but development continues, and the OD eventually become a bit old-fashioned, and another new OD will take it's place.

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TonyL View Drop Down
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Posts: 57 		Post Options Post Options   Quote TonyL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 05 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by I luv Wight

. but development continues, and the OD eventually become a bit old-fashioned, and another new OD will take it's place.


Isn't the challenge for the likes of the RS400 to ensure this doesn't happen by making sure some elements of the package evolve over time, in the way that some of the class association driven boats have?    I'm thinking of the likes of the Fireball here, because think back 10-12 years where some thought the class was toast due to the competition from the new SMOD's from Laser, Topper etc.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 05 at 11:59pm

Originally posted by I luv Wight

Development comes from the development classes!
Eventually this gets watered down into production boats, and made easier to use, and cheaper etc ( and much more popular!) . The one-designs are 'modern' and the hottest latest thing for a while.... but development continues, and the OD eventually become a bit old-fashioned, and another new OD will take it's place.

Just like it has happened to the Laser & Topper ... I don't think so ...

I think good boats that are enjoyed by their owners will endure - why can't you get off this dev class 'v' SMOD band wagon and recognise that both can enjoy long term success.

Rick
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Posts: 126 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Adds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 05 at 1:20pm
Redback, Carbon Rigs being cheaper than Ali rigs. I think that is a fair way off. As carbon has doubled in price this year.
This has put off the Fireball class for allowing carbon spinnaker poles as 18months ago they were the same price as the kevlar rapped poles. But now they are twice the price.
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Posts: 1047 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 05 at 7:37pm

Originally posted by Adds

Redback, Carbon Rigs being cheaper than Ali rigs. I think that is a fair way off. As carbon has doubled in price this year.
This has put off the Fireball class for allowing carbon spinnaker poles as 18months ago they were the same price as the kevlar rapped poles. But now they are twice the price.

apparently the reason for this is the increased usage of carbon to build windfarm blades and this has created a shortage. That is the story going around the cat fleets anyway!
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