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Starting - Warning when boats are OCS pre-start

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jeffers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Starting - Warning when boats are OCS pre-start
    Posted: 29 Sep 11 at 9:46am
To clarify, this was a response to the OP and other comments made:
 
Originally posted by jeffers

If it is expected and 'normal' practice for an RO to give a warning and then a competitor gets an OCS or BFD and this warning was not issued they could claim they were not over as no warning was shown (no matter how tenuous). If you ignore the issuing of a warning this is what happened at the Merlin Rocket nationals this year, a boat was judges OCS on a black flag start. They successfully won following a protest and were given an average points redress. This, in hindsight, is seen by many as an error (especially at their actual finishing place was apparently noted by the RO) as they were then sailed down the fleet in the final race of the series and a oat who had not beaten them all week subsequently won the championship.
 
In my opinion it is better that the RO to let the boats sort themselves out and display the required signals (X, General recall, Black Flag, I flag, etc..). Then always record a boats time or where they would have finished just in case of any subsequent protest hearing so an accurate redress can be given.
 
To break it down:
 
1) Should an RO give warning if boats are over the line prior to the start? - No unless you are doing a training exercise
 
2) If such a signal is 'normal' practice (and the RO is not obligated to tell a boat they are OCS) and then is not shown for whatever reason can an RO score a boat OCS? Yes they could but they leave themselves open to protests/redress claims from compeititors who will claim they were not OCS as such a warning was not shown.
 
Paul
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Stuart O View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stuart O Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 11 at 10:21am

Having attended several RO seminars over the last 2-3 years the RYA are keen (where??) to adopt this practise... the argument being that the X-flag is only activated by the sound signals that are required by the rules.

The justification is that ROs are there to be competitor friendly
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 11 at 12:06pm
There is being competitor friendly and making a rod for your own back! we have enough issues getting ROs to do duties for our own club racing because they are worried about the complexity of it currently let alone if they added something else for them to do....
 
I do agree that in club racing there may be a friendly shout of 'Bob you were over' accompanied by the appropriate flag and sound signal.
 
Beyond that it is difficult, especially as fleet sizes grow, to achieve this. The RYA are in danger of having a 2 tier starting system if they are not careful, this could cause issues to people who are learning and get used to having a warning so they dont need to worry about it who then attend a bigger event where they won't get this 'friendly' reminder.
 
IMO if the RYA want to change this they should propose rule changes to the ISAF so we have a level field.
 
I usually have a safety nearby at the start and if someone is over I ask them to mosey on over and let them know before they get too far away (if it is practical and safe to do so).
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 11 at 1:26pm
+1,
I wouldn't want to see this extra complexity for officials or competitors, or the arguments that will inevitably arise about whether it was or wasn't properly applied
 
On a lighter note, have a look at the start shown in this video from 2.20 to 2.50
 
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