Class rules in handicap races

This would be a good one for someone from the RYA technical committe to give a view on.  (or a para in roll tacks... Andy talked to the RYA about...).  Another idea for the magazine... what about a reader passionate about a topic doing some research and an article, Radio 4 does this very successfully from time to time, giving a member of the public a tape recorder and then putting together a programme.

Does Jim's interpretation mean a sailboard competing in a handicap race with dinghies is barred from pumping? 

Edited by Garry

Originally posted by FreshScum I was always fairly sure that a PY Handicap was given to a boat sailing to its class rules. So if its in the rules, you can pump 3 times.

Originally posted by Garry This would be a good one for someone from the RYA technical committe to give a view on. ... Does Jim's interpretation mean a sailboard competing in a handicap race with dinghies is barred from pumping?

Yup, Stewart Cresswell or some other yardstick guru.

I think this is a matter of practicality, not 'pure' rules.

Rule 86.1 says MNA prescriptions and SI may NOT change rule 42, but that Class Rules (CR) MAY.

Rule 87 says SI may change a CR ONLY if permitted to do so by the CR or Class Association.

Rule J1.1(4) requires the NOR to include 'the classes to race'.

Definition 'rules' includes CR (for a boat racing under a handicap or rating system the rules fo the at system are 'class rules'), but there is nothing to stop the CR of a Class Association and a handicap system rules operating at the same time.

Where this gets us is that if the NOR/SI provides for, for example FD, to race as a Class, then the CR will apply and within that Class, three pumps will be OK, but, of course they won't be racing on yardstick against boats of other classes.

On the other hand where the NOR/SI provide for boats belonging to a class to race in a race under a handicap system, but do not provide a distinct Class, then the CR, as a whole, will not apply, even if the NOR/SI incorporate some parts of the CR, such as by providing that 'boats shall comply with the measurement requirements of their CR'.  In this case, there is nothing to modify or turn rule 42 off, and no pumping is allowed.

I think the PY position would be that PY data cannot be collected from boats racing in one design classes, therefore all PY data would/should be relevant to boats of a class racing in handicap fleets with no pumping, therefore FD's PY is for 'no pumping'.

I see it differently for sailboards:  as I understand it, sailboards always pump:  wherever sailboards sail so as to generate PY data, they will have been pumping, so their PY yardsticks will be based on pumping, and they should be excused rule 42.

Given that PY racing is 'all chums together', I don't see any real problem with this differential approach based on practicalities.

Edited by Brass

Originally posted by alstorer Sailboards only "always pump" when they're racing under the appropriate Appendix.

As I understand it, because the boardsailor holds directly onto the boom, every balancing action the boardsailor takes is technically a rock-pump, to that, in effect it is impossible to determine whether a boardsailor is rocking/pumping contrary to rule 42 or not.

I would be happy to defer to anyone with more on-water judging experience than I have.

I believe the whole problem can be solved by proper drafting of the SIs. These should make clear that boats are entering a handicap race run under the PY system. In which case the class rules are the PY system rules.

Boats that wish to sail using a predfined yardstick number must demonstrate that the hull, equipment and crew are inconformity with the measurement rules of the class to which that number has been attributed. If they cannot demonstrate this the race committee can decide on a yardstick number (the problem will inevitably arise with SMOD classes not using approved sails!).

The SIs should make very clear that any changes to the racing rules made by class rules do not apply. As a handicap race is not, by definition, governed by any class rules other than the handicap rules, individual class rules do not apply unless the SIs say they do. Should they apply, this is not a change to individual class rules but a change to the handicap rules. Rule 87 does not apply except insofar as any modification of handicap rules may require MNA permission.

If sailboards and boats are racing together the SIs must make it very clear whether Appendix B applies or not. If it applies it should apply to all boats and boards.

If, in a handicap event, prizes are to be awarded to boats in a particular category (for instance first Laser Standard) then the SIs should make clear that this category of boats is not racing as a class, but this is merely a supplementary prize within the overall handicap event.

If you have no-one in your club who can write suotable SIs to cover all of this then contact the RYA who will point you in the direction of your local rules expert.

As for Brass's point, in Appendix B rule 42 is re-written and the whole of the standard RRS rule 42 (including 42.1, 42.2 and 42.3) is replaced by the new text. Therefore, for board racing, there is no such thing as pumping,rocking,ooching etc - these are all "unassisted actions of the competitor."

Gordon