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Carbon top mast for Laser Radial
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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Jan 14 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by bustinben

Not sure if they make sure the spars match as well though, less likely I'd think.


*If* my understanding of the manufacturing problems of alloy masts is correct then a whole batch of spars made at the same time will be very close. My understanding is that the dies used to create the extruded section wear, so as they get older the wall thickness gradually increases until it goes out of spec, then they have to start again with a new set of dies.
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Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 14 at 10:21pm

Personally I think that it’s only a matter of time before carbon sits alongside aluminium.

If a carbon boom is available for the Laser/Kirby torch, with such a one design class what’s to stop the manufacture and purchase of carbon spars in other classes?

RS 100, 300, 600, 700, are already specified in carbon, RS 300 is going to get a carbon boom, Byte has gone carbon, in fact below is a list of spars available in carbon.

Selden Carbon Spars

Can anyone remind me of a new boat recently launched with aluminium spars?

I am aware of several discussions where VERY traditional classes are considering “playing with carbon” to see how it goes. 

I know this puts them out of class but where they sail in handicap fleets and are unlikely to travel, a more enjoyable sail seems to be more of a priority.

Sorry if this is heresy, I just think the idea is out there more than people realise.
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 8:33am
For three Classes that are in my awareness, Osprey, Phantom and Contender the option of a carbon rig seems to have done them no harm at all in terms of popularity.
I think the general opinion for at least the Osprey is that a carbon rig is little faster in terms of outright speed in a straight line drag race. However it seems to offer a kinder and more pleasant sailing experience especially for lighter teams, of course this could or should ultimately result in a quicker time around the course. 
Is the cost of carbon vs aluminium determined by manufacturing costs or the market forces of supply & demand and desirability.
  
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 11:15am
I did hear that China's need for financial growth, resulting in a rate of 10% was about to slow down as they service their domestic market. China has been sucking in raw materials keeping World commodity prices high. Could aluminium become cheaper making carbon an expensive option the way it used to be?

Carbon fibre is aesthetically pleasing to the contemporary eye, but will that last? 

Dishwashers used to be an expensive luxury item so you put in pride of place in the kitchen because you wanted it to be seen. Then they became commonplace and were covered up (integrated) but just showing the control panel, so people new. Eventually they were obscured completely with the controls in the door thickness, because everyone had a dishwasher no one cared.

A friend of mine has a Phantom with a WHITE carbon mast. I await seeing a carbon mast finished in silver.

Cost, availability and fashion must all play important parts but is it not easier to engineer different characteristics into carbon?
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Posts: 169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Telltale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 11:29am
Sailing costs coming down !!! Now there is a truly radical concept, not sure that is going to happen even if Ali does flood back onto the market.
I think you will find the thinking behind a white carbon mast is related to UV protection and heat absorption, though thinking about it silver would do that equally well.
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 12:05pm
Painted masts do last longer. Clear coat, like the majority are, is a triumph of aesthetics over practicality.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 12:39pm
I believe the price of aluminium products is heavily tied to energy costs, so I don't see it becoming cheaper any time soon.

I first saw a silver painted carbon mast about ten years ago.

Clear coating carbon masts isn't really a very sensible idea. I reckon that, whatever people may say about UV resistance in clear coatings, that its not that effective because the clear coat peels off after a few years and paint doesn't seem to, so I think that most likely means that enough UV is getting through to degrade the varnish/epoxy bond.

Edited by JimC - 12 Jan 14 at 12:40pm
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iitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 12:43pm
Why do some team sportsmen put blobs of colour on various parts of their faces. Is there a purpose or is it just fashion?
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 14 at 2:11pm
Fashionable zinc based sunscreen to prevent reflection on the eyes or the like. Mostly fashion otherwise you'll end up with a white stripe after it's washed off
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 14 at 11:59am
Originally posted by iitick

I did hear that China's need for financial growth, resulting in a rate of 10% was about to slow down as they service their domestic market. China has been sucking in raw materials keeping World commodity prices high. Could aluminium become cheaper making carbon an expensive option the way it used to be?

Carbon fibre is aesthetically pleasing to the contemporary eye, but will that last?



......


Carbon is a great material, but clear coated carbon is hardly the latest thing in fashion.
I have a 1992 motorbike with clear coated carbon mudguards. It was the latest thing 20 odd years ago.
The price of an ali mast is not really about the commodity cost of the metal, that is about £1200 a tonne. So even an RS400 mast only has about £12 of ali in it.
The commodity cost in carbon is below £200? in carbon tow and resin.
The cost is in manufacture, and the key to that is quantity.
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