Sounds simple but is it.....

   Ok guys and gals here is one for you...

2 boats both going upwind.

No marks or obstructions (or other boats) that are affecting the courses of either boat.

The port boat is going to easily clear across the bow on the starboard boat (thus keeping clear).

There is a windshift when the boats are approximately 2 boat lengths apart. The port boat holds course despite being headed. The starboard boat heads up calls for the boat on port to do turns despite that fact that had they held their course they would have passed behind the port boat.

My question here...should the port boat have done turns?

My view..

The boat on port was clearing, had the wind not shifted there would have been no issue.

I believe that the boat on starboard was bound by rule 16 (right of way boat changing course must give a non right of way boat room to keep clear).

The boat on starboard line is that they were on starboard and the port boat should not even have been there.

I am sure everyone can guess which boat I was in this case!

I would value other opinions on this one..

Paul

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jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Sounds simple but is it..... Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 1:16pm
	Ok guys and gals here is one for you... 2 boats both going upwind. No marks or obstructions (or other boats) that are affecting the courses of either boat. The port boat is going to easily clear across the bow on the starboard boat (thus keeping clear). There is a windshift when the boats are approximately 2 boat lengths apart. The port boat holds course despite being headed. The starboard boat heads up calls for the boat on port to do turns despite that fact that had they held their course they would have passed behind the port boat. My question here...should the port boat have done turns? My view.. The boat on port was clearing, had the wind not shifted there would have been no issue. I believe that the boat on starboard was bound by rule 16 (right of way boat changing course must give a non right of way boat room to keep clear). The boat on starboard line is that they were on starboard and the port boat should not even have been there. I am sure everyone can guess which boat I was in this case! I would value other opinions on this one.. Paul
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 2:42pm
	Port boat was keeping clear until Starboard changed course (the wind shift is irrelevant) Port did her best to kept clear - if she had tacked she would probably have been sailing into a possible collision. Starboard, having changed course, then allowed Port room to keep clear. According to your description Starboard, after initially changing course did not have to alter course to avoid Port. No rule was infringed. No boat need take a penalty. Gordon
	Gordon

sten Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 208	Post Options Post Reply Quote sten Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 3:50pm
	2 boat lengths with your sails flapping in a laser? sounds like you should have tacked at 2 boat lengths when you could no longer cross, 1 boat length is plenty to tack a laser and avoid the starboard boat, with 2 lengths you could also duck, if you were closer together or in boats that are slower to tack I would agree with gordon. when its close its best to ask the starboard boat if you can cross, then if you hit a bad wave and don't make it he will let you off.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 3:50pm
	I think it depends on the facts found. On your description port is safe. If starboard's description of events persuaded the PC the distance was greater and the heading up for the windshift would still have left port adequate room to tack or duck then port is in trouble... Starboard is not required to hold their course from somewhere over the horizon.

tack'ho Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100	Post Options Post Reply Quote tack'ho Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 3:59pm
	Again it never ceases to amaze me. Next time Stbd boat is in that situation and gets a lift when a boat is crossing, the crossing boat will remember what he is like and tack into a lee bow forcing him off the lift and handing a place to the port boat. If he lets the port boat cross, uses the lift to gain speed which he translates into height as soon as he passes the stern of the Port boat and stays on the lift, next time he crosses......guess what? Edited by tack'ho
	I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!

sten Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 208	Post Options Post Reply Quote sten Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 5:30pm
	its a wind bend

gordon Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 08 at 5:39pm
	Wind bend, shift or a mega fart from that guy on the safety boat... it doesn't modify the rules situation. If a right of way boat changes course she must give all keep clear boats room to keep clear. The reason for the course change is irrelevant. Gordon
	Gordon

kanga Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 09 Oct 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 248	Post Options Post Reply Quote kanga Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 08 at 9:19am
	the starboard boat is change of course boat and therefore has to give opportunity for port to keep clear. again - no rule infringed and therefore no penalty to be taken.

sten Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 07 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 208	Post Options Post Reply Quote sten Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jun 08 at 10:44am
	makes a difference to if you want to duck or make him tack, you don't want to go downwind of the mega fart

sargesail Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 14 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1459	Post Options Post Reply Quote sargesail Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 08 at 9:34am
	Seen this all too often recently and indeed been DSQ (wrongly) in my opinion when tacking off a port biased line to clear a starboard tack boat which made a signifciant change of course after I was tack complete and prevented me from keeping clear. Also had starboard tack boats luff to a (just) collision course within 1 -1.5 boat lengths and enforce their rights. And leeward marks.... The restrictions on the RoW boat are not well understood.