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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What percentage of Clubs in the country run ...
    Posted: 18 Apr 22 at 7:08am

Originally posted by Paramedic

 
So what do you do if you're 6 foot 3, 15 stone, want to helm a two man boat competitively and the only available classes are 420, 470, Fireball and local one designs? Thats quite a large chunk of our population that in Europe are potentially (depending on the local classes) lost to the sport that over here are catered for.

Is everyone a GRF-sized troll in Europe then?!  Wink Most sports are body-type sensitive at high level. Your 15 stoner won't make a jockey and GRF won't be playing pro basketball anytime soon. However at amateur level those aspects are far less important.





The irony is being the perfect size is even less important in sailing as it is so complex and as most club sailors would usually benefit far more from just getting the basics right. Of course the UK system feeds the myth of finding the 'perfect' boat (obviously because the sailor can never be at fault Tongue) which tallies pretty closely with how consumerism operates - just one more purchase and everything will be perfect...


The Finn exists in Europe. As CT249 has pointed out repeatedly keelboat sailing is actually the biggest participation area in most countries so plenty more options there for varied crew sizes. Then there is the Snipe with fleets and a very high level of competition internationally. No doubt most Y&Y'ers will be sniggering about the idea of such a heavy, odd looking boat but I'd suspect there are far more Snipes being sailed at a far higher level than many of the Y&Y forum favourites (RS100? H2? Alto, Farr 3.7....).


Edited by DiscoBall - 18 Apr 22 at 7:45am
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 22 at 7:56am
a 15 stoner could be a jockey in a shire horse race...............;)

One of the biggest step changes in the last 20/30 years is the development and perfection of raking rigs and carbon rigs, allowing previously heavyweight dominated classes to be sailed by lighter people. I don't think that this is entirely a good thing, you don't see too many 6 foot 2 men under 14 stone, and they're hardly obese either. When most UK classes were designed such a person would have made up a small percentage of the population. Funny how we spent 40 years learning how to depower only for population size to catch up!

We arent talking keelboats, we are talking dinghies and don't get me wrong, I am - slightly - playing devils advocate here. We do have too many classes, and some new classes are appearing that there is no real need for (Most of those you mention in my view - cue thread drift!)

But I don't think the European version is the answer either, in fact I really do think we do it better for our audience. Literally anyone of any size can find a class that they can sail competitively either with someone else (Also of whatever size) or by themselves. I get that the singlehander market on the other side of the channel is pretty well served (Ok, Finn, Solo, Contender, Laser, Splash - something there for the vast majority of people and i'm bound to have missed one/two) doublehanders however have a poor selection of  - frankly - largely poor classes to choose from if they want national level racing (Depending upon the FD and 505 distribution, but I perceive the 420 and 470 are very dominant - the Snipe just doesn't do anything for me). Now the racing might be amazing, but to me it's got to get a bit stale once you've done it for a few years. 

Maybe what we have is actually the best compromise? We have a handful of large, highly competitive fleets and also smaller ones for those who want to massage their egos. Most fleets sit in the middle but a number of classes are seeing a resurgence. Most importantly for me, and key looking 20 or so years ahead, you can say in the UK we have boats suitable for any water, that can be sailed by anyone. And a handicap system that works more often than it doesn't for more than half of the classes in the system.

Beyond hoping natural selection carries on with the classes coming in I cant see a lot wrong with what we do.
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Grumpycat View Drop Down
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Posts: 497 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 22 at 9:29am
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 22 at 10:19am
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by 423zero

just rocking up for a blast in strong winds with a bunch of mates is brilliant too, but probably not suitable for learners or sustaining the sport.

We used to do it all the time when I was at school (Mid 90s). Would be frowned upon now.

50% of my sailing is just pottering or blasting up and down and all of the sailors at my holiday club are similar. Sailing is a holiday pastime for them, some don't race at all and I'm the only one who races elsewhere. That said we can get 25-30 boats out on a race day so we must be doing something right.
Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 22 at 6:24pm
I know a couple of sailors who do 'wild sailing' similar to wild swimming, bit more visual than swimming they did a raid on Vyrnwy, police helicopter turned up and gave them a load of abuse.
Robert
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by 423zero

just rocking up for a blast in strong winds with a bunch of mates is brilliant too, but probably not suitable for learners or sustaining the sport.

We used to do it all the time when I was at school (Mid 90s). Would be frowned upon now.

ditto - some of the best sailing.  We even carried it on at University - well I did until my N12 sank (for the first time) in the Tyne.  It met a watery end in Abersoch the following summer.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 22 at 6:36pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWjxUYcL6Z4          
Mad wind, Bahia and a GP14, I am in the safety boat filming (not driving it  Smile) You could barely stand , racing abandoned.
Robert
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