New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Boat on different leg
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Boat on different leg
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Henmch View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 26 Dec 15
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Henmch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boat on different leg
    Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 12:58pm
Three dinghies ( solos) are approaching a leeward mark on port in a force 2. They are within the zone and the mark is to be left to port.
Another boat ( flying 15) sailing upwind on starboard tack in a different race in which this leeward mark is not a mark on this leg decides to try and intercept them  by sailing towards the mark.
Who has right of way? The dinghies within the zone about to gybe or the flying 15 entering the zone on starboard when it wasn’t a mark of the course for him on that leg.
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 1:17pm
Thats a very strange scenarion you're highlighting... you're saying the FF deliberately tries to intercept them? sure? Why?

Anyway RRS 18 states
18.1 When Rule 18 Applies

Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a
mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.

So I reckon it doesn't apply between the FF and the Solos.

Anyway, there's no doubt who has ROW: its the boat on Starboard. The question is whether any of the rules that limit the actions of an ROW boat apply.
RRS 18, I submit doesn't. What about RRS16 - changing course?
Then there's RRS24.2
If reasonably possible, a boat shall not interfere with a boat that is
taking a penalty, sailing on another leg or subject to rule 22.1.
However, after the starting signal this rule does not apply when the
boat is sailing her proper course.

so, if Starboard was found to have diverted to interfere with the Solos, was she sailing on a proper course?


Edited by JimC - 10 Jun 19 at 1:47pm
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 1:50pm
The FF isnt approaching that mark so rule 18 doesn't apply between it and the Solos so it is simple port/starboard situation the Solos on port must keep clear (assuming all boats are racing of course otherwise colregs overrides). The question would be would about 

This sort of thing happens fairly regularly on club 'round the cans' courses. we had something similar, a windward mark pretty much on the reach leg between 2 other marks. Reaching on starboard so all the port tackers coming up had to keep clear and the reaching boat had to be careful as could be windward boat on a stb tacker who was heading to said WW mark.

I think you would be hard pushed to prove the FF was deliberately trying to interfere with the Solos on the other leg rather than sailing their proper course (which I dont think they are restricted to anyway).

It does sound like one of those situations that I wouldnt want to be anywhere near so would probably take a short tack away (if I were the FF) and then tack back. Much safer than getting tangled up in an argument between 3 other boats. Then again a fair few flying 15 sailors still call mast abeam.... 
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by JimC

Anyway RRS 18 states
18.1 When Rule 18 Applies 
Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a 
mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone.
 
So I reckon it doesn't apply between the FF and the Solos. 

Yup.  Agree with that.

Originally posted by jeffers

The FF isnt approaching that mark so rule 18 doesn't apply between it and the Solos 

Right conclusion, but you are using the pre 1995 language.  Rule 18 no longer refers to 'approaching':  all that is required is that at least one of them is in the zone.
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Brass


Originally posted by jeffers

The FF isnt approaching that mark so rule 18 doesn't apply between it and the Solos 

Right conclusion, but you are using the pre 1995 language.  Rule 18 no longer refers to 'approaching':  all that is required is that at least one of them is in the zone.

So as the aforementioned mark isn't a mark on the leg for the FF there is no zone applicable to them  Wink
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by jeffers

Originally posted by Brass


Originally posted by jeffers

The FF isnt approaching that mark so rule 18 doesn't apply between it and the Solos 

Right conclusion, but you are using the pre 1995 language.  Rule 18 no longer refers to 'approaching':  all that is required is that they are required to leave the mark on the same side and  at least one of them is in the zone.

So as the aforementioned mark isn't a mark on the leg for the FF there is no zone applicable to them  Wink
Just so.

Should have included the underlined bit.
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 2:42pm
I think the critical word in the rule is *they*. Both boats required to leave the mark on the same side. So it doesn't apply here, and wouldn't apply if one boat had to leave the mark to port and the other to starboard (it happens!).
Back to Top
H2 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 17
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 3:44pm
In my experience the rules do not apply to anyone who sails a Flying Fifteen so I have no idea why you are asking. Anything that might unsettle their sun dial or bird bath is simply unsporting and therefore not allowed. Its almost as if other people do not exist....
H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145
OK 2082
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 19 at 8:58pm
Oh yes H2. Just managed to get round the back of one at HISC that made a no look 90 degree turn across us at HISC AL a couple of weekends ago.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 19 at 7:44am
Sounds like you simply take the mark out of the equation. Happens regularly on knitting courses on small lakes.

The language of the OP suggests that the FF is deliberately sailing towards the Solos, which I hope is just a linguistic thing
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy