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Does the world need a two-adult one-wire RS?

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Do Different View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 7:18am
I have no knowledge of three person boats.
However is the trend away from two person boats partly due to changes in cultural practices.
Before we became a more nervous certificate needy society people and children learnt to sail either from parents or by turning up at a Club and looking keen & useful; two person boats of various type were needed and the norm.
Now adults arriving at a Club are directed to a course which largely focuses on helming and for whatever reasons children are more rarely taught by parents but instructors and again groups helming singlehanders.
The one to one gradual training has been replaced by short and relatively intense group training where the perceived outcome is to be able to helm your own boat; singlehanders then by default become the natural route to follow.
To some extent I believe this trend has made the game more and I'm struggling for the right wording here, individual and less team and group driven. I would be interested to see if there is any knowledge of drop out rates (especially adults) after taking a course compared to one2one jump in and going sailing type introductions. 
Going slightly off track and speaking broadly. There has been a lot of focus on the need for lighter boats. Yes of course lighter boats perform "better", well faster anyway although there is a whole 'nother debate about how light you want to go before it becomes counter to general usability. HOWEVER. a lot of the call is driven by ease of handling ashore. Singlehanders, it's all in the name the initial notion is you are alone to do it all. Two person boats you are straightaway into a team to handle the boat and it breeds a mindset to muck-in together. A slightly heavier two person fleet landing on a more difficult shore it is the natural thinking to work mob handed to get everyone up the beach and sorted. 
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 8:52am
Light boats tend to be more sensitive to trim and balance than heavier boats and, thus, less forgiving and more difficult to sail. But they are much easier to manage onshore.

While we're on the subject of managing boats onshore..... There is an issue at my club with people leaving launching trolleys in the water which makes it very difficult for the last fleet afloat to launch. It's bloody infuriating but for the singlehanders avoiding it requires some degree of cooperation as our foreshore is stoney and sailors are reluctant to beach the boat while removing the trolly. It's doubly infuriating when spotty oiks in RS200s and 29ers leave their's in the water.......  Angry

Not a problem at beach based clubs  Thumbs Up


Edited by Sam.Spoons - 22 Jan 17 at 8:53am
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 10:01am
What are you SS 63 by your own admission ? Time for some serious senior death stares on those bone idle 200s & 29ers, absolutely no excuses for two up boats to clog up the slip with trolleys.
Some Clubs are so all over this problem; I am sure that I recall a friend of mine being fined for leaving one wheel of his Phantom in the water (he was a bit ticked because it was a very quiet day and nobody was inconvenienced), probably a bit OTT but at least it made it very clear what was  unacceptable behaviour  


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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 3:52pm
Smile yes but I'm a new boy at the club so it's a bit soon to start throwing my weight about........
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Riv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 6:07pm
In my club it's noticable that the bigger heavier boats do not go out much if at all.

Just too damn heavy to handle ashore. Wayfarers, GP14, Laser Bahia, Stratos etc

Just flipped a Wayfarer over to paint it.Took three of us to do it safely. Ever dropped one? Really difficult, too heavy.

As a 17yr old I could easily flip my old Enterprise by myself.

It would be great to have a stable, easy to sail boat of Wayfarer size and capability that weighed half as much.

Most people's trolleys are really poor, ergonomics are rubbish, wheel bearings are just plain ones, no roller bearings, no maintenance..............rant over.


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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 17 at 7:00pm
Ent min hull weight, 96kg, Wayfarer nearly twice that at 167kg and that's assuming it's down to weight. I'd have thought most club Ents were not too much over as there are usually raced, Wayfarers OTOH are usually training boats with rear lockers, heavy anchor etc so are probably considerably heavier than their racing weight.

But, light boats are less stable, more 'twitchy' and harder to sail as would be an 85kg Wayfarer. Plus it's hard to make a 16' boat as light as a 13' one. Remember the surface area of the hull and decks doesn't rise proportionally but by something like the square of length (educated guess) and bigger boats have to use thicker laminates too.

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ChrisB14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisB14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 17 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

In Germany the three handers the Z Jolles seem to get a dozen boats to many regattas; J-Jolles are more popular (fleets of up to 20). The numbers aren't huge (and I was misled by thinking that the Elb H Jolle races three up at regattas) but set against what I can find out of the rest of the dinghy scene, the three handers appear to be proportionately more popular than in the UK. 
Your memory is clearly better than mine ;-) I had completely forgotten about the old 'national classes'. I believe they mainly sail on the classic circuit today with little or no newbuilds. But they are of course around.

Originally posted by Chris 249

Looking at big dinghies generally, Germany seems to have a disproportionate number of 16-17'+ boats - Korsars (67 at the last nationals, way up on the long-term average), 505 and FD (each 48 boats at their last nats), plus plenty of other trap-and-kite dinghy classes of 15' -27ft.

That does look to me like a scene where the big crewed boats have not suffered the same sort of comparative drop in numbers as they have in the UK.  I'd love to find out more about the European scene but there's too many other things to squeeze in when I'm over there. 
The FD is the main one I would say is a "big guy boat". The 505 will still like heavy and tall crews (anyone in need of one? :-) ), but from what others have said here, also seeing a drop in crew weights. The Korsar is a lovely and fun boat, not unlike the Hornet or Fireball. Many mixed crews here and the team dominating the field over the past years is quite light, I believe.

In general I think there is very little movement toward newer classes in Germany. Sadly. One more reason I am happy to stay this side of the Channel.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 17 at 3:23pm
There are loads of people racing 3 handed boats in the UK. They just tend to be dragging a bit of cast iron around with them! Most of the Cowes Week white group is 3 handed. XOD, Dragon, Daring, Etchells, Victory, 
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