Avoiding collisions in a confined river

   3 non-racing boats in a confined river - (diagram) - two on port running dead downwind and the third tacking upwind and on a collision course with the 
boat in middle of river.  What should happen?  

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r2d2 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350	Post Options Post Reply Quote r2d2 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Avoiding collisions in a confined river Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 9:53pm
	3 non-racing boats in a confined river - (diagram) - two on port running dead downwind and the third tacking upwind and on a collision course with the boat in middle of river. What should happen?

AlexM Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 10 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 857	Post Options Post Reply Quote AlexM Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 9:56pm
	Starboard boat should tack back to the bank to get out of the current.

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 10:10pm
	A quick discussion between the boats as to what they want to do... You don't tell us whether colregs apply on the river or not. Some inland clubs with exclusive use of the water mandate that RRS apply all the time, whether boats are racing or not. Edited by JimC - 17 Jul 12 at 10:12pm

Brass Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 08 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brass Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 10:28pm
	Assuming IRPCAS apply. Green and Blue shall keep out of the way of Yellow (IRPCAS rule 12(a)(i). Yellow shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable. (IRPCAS rule 9(a)). Yellow shall keep her course and speed (IRPCAS rule 17(a)(i)), but may, however, take action to avoid collision by ... manoeuvre as soon as it becomes apparent to her that Green (or Blue) is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules (IRPCAS 17(a)(ii)). Are Yellow's obligations in conflict? Yes they are. Life's full of little conflicts. If these boats were racing one another, Yellow would gain a tactical advantage by crossing ahead of Green and Blue. Since they are not racing, Yellow gains no advantage by pressing her right of way, and her best action is to tack back onto her own side of the river. Edited by Brass - 17 Jul 12 at 10:29pm

r2d2 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350	Post Options Post Reply Quote r2d2 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 9:48am
	thanks for the replies @ AlexM - yes you are right and actually the current was strongest on the side of the river where the blue boat was. @JimC - well your reply made me look up the local navigation byelaws, which obviously I should have done before (doh!) and which state that colregs do not apply here. The relevant bits of the byelaws seem to be: 14(1) "When two vessels, whether power-driven or manually propelled, are meeting on reciprocal or nearly reciprocal courses so as to involve risk of collision the master of each vessel shall if it is safe and practicable to do so alter the course of his vessel to starboard so that each vessel shall pass on the port side of the other." and: 16 "When two vessels whether power-driven or manually propelled are crossing so as to involve risk of collision the master of the vessel which has the other on its own starboard side shall keep his vessel out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel." and 22 "When two sailing vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows: (a) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other; (b) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward; (c) if a vessel with wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other." There was no collision in the end but the problem arose because initially it seemed possible for green and blue to pass yellow on her port side but the wind dropped and green and blue slowed significantly. So I am still not entirely sure what should have happened. At the time it didn't feel right for green to head up towards yellow which left the option of green trying to squeeze through. My head was in RRS with thoughts of continuing obstructions as well which didn't help. Edited by r2d2 - 18 Jul 12 at 9:52am

RS400atC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011	Post Options Post Reply Quote RS400atC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 10:29am
	If they were racing, Green should have gybed onto starboard before yellow tacked. You have to think ahead in river racing. As it is a non-racing situation, green should have gone behind yellow. Blue likewise if she cannot safely pass ahead. But Yellow could have hailed 'hold your course' and tacked, or just tacked to avoid sailing through the lee of the other boats. Or indeed hailed and luffed above them perhaps? By thinking a little further ahead, yellow could have avoided the issue by making a short tack so that she did not meet the other boats on that side of the river. Thinking and judging things a couple of tacks ahead makes a lot of difference.

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 1:02pm
	I'd agree these situations should involve common sense as well as rules. Chances are that it is easier for yellow to keep clear, simply by luffing or tacking, than for boats going with the wind and current.
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

JimC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662	Post Options Post Reply Quote JimC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 1:51pm
	In that situation, were I yellow, I might either have tacked or else waved green to luff up and pass to windward of me. Were I blue I think I'd have just held my course. I don't think there's much I could usefully do. If I were green I think I'd probably have crossed the river to pass well behind yellow, starting a while before the diagram. It depends hugely on precise closing speeds, wind and a dozen other factors. But the main thing is to act early and communicate as much as possible with the other boats. With the navigation rules in question I would say that green is required to luff up and go behind yellow, and should have already started by the time the boats got to that position.

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 5:07pm
	This is a common situation for us at Tewkesbury, our River is very narrow and racing is very, very close. In that situation as yellow i would tack off despite having a starboard right of way. Whilst Green looks to be easily comfortable to be able to luff up out of the way Blue may struggle. In this instance at our club he could call for water for the bank if there was no other action he could take. Hence why when i am in this situation i tack off for a clearer racing line and wind.


DFF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 22 Aug 12 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote DFF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 27 Aug 12 at 2:41pm
	We came into a whole squib fleet on the River Tay while being on the beat, starboard ... They were hemmed in by sheer volume of boats and the shallows: unfortunetly a keel boat on STB beat ahead of us did not heed the calls for water to avoid obstruction ie squib to side, back, front! and stood on his STB rights, resulting in him colliding and probably some other squibs colliding. What people "should do" is over written by R14.
	Crewing on a Melges 24, against my better judgement...