Avoiding collisions in a confined river
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9610
Printed Date: 30 Jun 25 at 3:00am
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Topic: Avoiding collisions in a confined river
Posted By: r2d2
Subject: Avoiding collisions in a confined river
Date Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 9:53pm
3 non-racing boats in a confined river - (diagram) - two on port running dead downwind and the third tacking upwind and on a collision course with the
boat in middle of river. What should happen?  |
Replies:
Posted By: AlexM
Date Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 9:56pm
Starboard boat should tack back to the bank to get out of the current.  ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 10:10pm
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A quick discussion between the boats as to what they want to do...
You don't tell us whether colregs apply on the river or not. Some inland clubs with exclusive use of the water mandate that RRS apply all the time, whether boats are racing or not. |
Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 17 Jul 12 at 10:28pm
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Assuming IRPCAS apply. Green and Blue shall keep out of the way of Yellow (IRPCAS rule 12(a)(i). Yellow shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable. (IRPCAS rule 9(a)). Yellow shall keep her course and speed (IRPCAS rule 17(a)(i)), but may, however, take action to avoid collision by ... manoeuvre as soon as it becomes apparent to her that Green (or Blue) is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules (IRPCAS 17(a)(ii)). Are Yellow's obligations in conflict? Yes they are. Life's full of little conflicts. If these boats were racing one another, Yellow would gain a tactical advantage by crossing ahead of Green and Blue. Since they are not racing, Yellow gains no advantage by pressing her right of way, and her best action is to tack back onto her own side of the river.
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Posted By: r2d2
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 9:48am
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thanks for the replies @ AlexM - yes you are right and actually the current was strongest on the side of the river where the blue boat was. @JimC - well your reply made me look up the local navigation byelaws, which obviously I should have done before (doh!) and which state that colregs do not apply here. The relevant bits of the byelaws seem to be: 14(1) "When two vessels, whether power-driven or manually propelled, are meeting on reciprocal or nearly reciprocal courses so as to involve risk of collision the master of each vessel shall if it is safe and practicable to do so alter the course of his vessel to starboard so that each vessel shall pass on the port side of the other." and: 16 "When two vessels whether power-driven or manually propelled are crossing so as to involve risk of collision the master of the vessel which has the other on its own starboard side shall keep his vessel out of the way and shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid crossing ahead of the other vessel." and 22 "When two sailing vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows: (a) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other; (b) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward; (c) if a vessel with wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other." There was no collision in the end but the problem arose because initially it seemed possible for green and blue to pass yellow on her port side but the wind dropped and green and blue slowed significantly. So I am still not entirely sure what should have happened. At the time it didn't feel right for green to head up towards yellow which left the option of green trying to squeeze through. My head was in RRS with thoughts of continuing obstructions as well which didn't help.
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Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 10:29am
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If they were racing, Green should have gybed onto starboard before yellow tacked. You have to think ahead in river racing. As it is a non-racing situation, green should have gone behind yellow. Blue likewise if she cannot safely pass ahead. But Yellow could have hailed 'hold your course' and tacked, or just tacked to avoid sailing through the lee of the other boats. Or indeed hailed and luffed above them perhaps? By thinking a little further ahead, yellow could have avoided the issue by making a short tack so that she did not meet the other boats on that side of the river. Thinking and judging things a couple of tacks ahead makes a lot of difference. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 1:02pm
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I'd agree these situations should involve common sense as well as rules. Chances are that it is easier for yellow to keep clear, simply by luffing or tacking, than for boats going with the wind and current.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 1:51pm
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In that situation, were I yellow, I might either have tacked or else waved green to luff up and pass to windward of me.
Were I blue I think I'd have just held my course. I don't think there's much I could usefully do. If I were green I think I'd probably have crossed the river to pass well behind yellow, starting a while before the diagram. It depends hugely on precise closing speeds, wind and a dozen other factors. But the main thing is to act early and communicate as much as possible with the other boats. With the navigation rules in question I would say that green is required to luff up and go behind yellow, and should have already started by the time the boats got to that position. |
Posted By: Ruscoe
Date Posted: 18 Jul 12 at 5:07pm
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This is a common situation for us at Tewkesbury, our River is very narrow and racing is very, very close. In that situation as yellow i would tack off despite having a starboard right of way. Whilst Green looks to be easily comfortable to be able to luff up out of the way Blue may struggle. In this instance at our club he could call for water for the bank if there was no other action he could take. Hence why when i am in this situation i tack off for a clearer racing line and wind. ------------- |
Posted By: DFF
Date Posted: 27 Aug 12 at 2:41pm
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We came into a whole squib fleet on the River Tay while being on the beat, starboard ... They were hemmed in by sheer volume of boats and the shallows: unfortunetly a keel boat on STB beat ahead of us did not heed the calls for water to avoid obstruction ie squib to side, back, front! and stood on his STB rights, resulting in him colliding and probably some other squibs colliding. What people "should do" is over written by R14. ------------- Crewing on a Melges 24, against my better judgement... |
Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 27 Aug 12 at 11:23pm
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Because this is NON racing situation it would be better & easier for yellow to tack early & avoid ALL the problems. common sense really.
If the river is wide enough for the "wind < to > drop and green and blue slowed significantly" then there must have been enough time for the problem to have been avoided. ------------- Phantom 1181 AC-227 IC 304 blaze / halo 586 |
Posted By: DFF
Date Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 10:03am
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ditto then, steer to starboard, pass to port... ------------- Crewing on a Melges 24, against my better judgement... |
Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 5:46pm
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If I was in yellow, and it was a non-racing situation, then I would assume that the running boats know nothing about starboard / port / keeping clear... so a quick tack would be obvious.
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Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 9:50pm
Why?
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Posted By: bert
Date Posted: 29 Aug 12 at 11:19pm
It is then common sense & being polite.
Just because the rules say - for example - that power gives way to sail, doe's not mean that the smart move is to insist on it. Some times the best way forward is to just give way even when you have the right of way, for "ease of passage". ------------- Phantom 1181 AC-227 IC 304 blaze / halo 586 |