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How Much Room at Leeward Mark?
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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by redman

I might go and read the rules again

Probably the least read and most important part of the rules is the Definitions section, at the end of the ISAF publication and (much more sensibly) at the beginning of the RYA one.
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redman View Drop Down
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 2:16pm
Right, sounds like I've got this one under control.  A big thanks to everyone for their help, especially Gordon.  I'm very curious as to why 18.4 switches off if the leeward mark is a gate, but I'm going to let that one go as I at least now understand the rule.

I agree that sailors should spend more time reading the rules.  The problem is that to really understand them you have to discuss them, and it's very hard to do that at a club.  Everyone just caves in to the opinions of whoever the best/most experienced sailor is.  Thank goodness for internet forums!  I have a similar query around how much room is needed to "Initially give the other boat room to keep clear" but I might go and read the rules again and then raise another thread if I have any questions.

Thanks again.
REDMAN
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 12:13pm
The rule is simple, it is the carrying out that is hard, starting with "where the hell is 3 boat lengths?"

Strange thing is, 3 boat lengths is much further from the mark if one is on the verge of loosing an overlap than it is if one is trying to gain one...
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 12:08pm
Simple  LOL ?

If only that were so, just having waves about, you surf down one, establish a clear over lap, hail for water only to slip down the back of the wave in front by the time they look round. Ermm

Just one of dozens of scenarios that gets the door slammed on you...
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Kev M View Drop Down
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Posts: 346 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 11:03am
Thanks Rupert, that makes more sense.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Kev M

Well you learn something new every day.  I thought the overlap had to be a physical overlap not three boat lengths, it's a good job the Laser I didn't give much room to on Saturday knows the rules even less well than I do then!


The overlap needs to be physical (if that is the right word, you don't have to have rammed them!), when the forward most part of the 1st boat is 3 boat lengths away from the mark.
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Kev M View Drop Down
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Posts: 346 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 9:07am
Well you learn something new every day.  I thought the overlap had to be a physical overlap not three boat lengths, it's a good job the Laser I didn't give much room to on Saturday knows the rules even less well than I do then!
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 8:25am
I doubt I would really call it simple, but attempting to legislate for every possible combination of boats approaching a mark is fearfully ambitious when you think about it... It's amazing we manage it at all really.

Edited by JimC - 12 Apr 12 at 8:25am
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 7:41am
Simple - isn't it. All that anyone needs to do is read the rule book. Would that more sailors did so!

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redman View Drop Down
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Posts: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Quote redman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 12 at 1:00am

OK – I think I’m just about there.  Let’s have a go and see if I’ve got it.

 

When approaching a port rounding leeward mark (leave the mark to port) on port tack (no gybe required) and two boats are overlapped, the windward boat is the give way boat.  The leeward boat is the right of way boat but her right of way is limited by the fact that she must give the windward (overlapped) boat mark room.  In this case only enough room to sail to and around the mark is required.  The windward overlapped boat is not entitled to make a tactical rounding.

 

When approaching a port rounding leeward mark on Starboard (gybe required) and two boats are overlapped, the windward boat is the give way boat.  The leeward boat is the right of way boat and is entitled to mark room.  As she has both right of way and mark room entitlement, she can make a tactical rounding, but before the gybe she is limited by rule 18.4 to have to sail her proper course.

 

Does this sound like I have it right?
REDMAN
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