Two poles better?

   Went out in my mates new mk IV Osprey last weekend.  Nice boat.   Lots of string, but all of it well organised.
This one is rigged with two manually launched spinny poles.   Anyone know what the advantage is supposed to be?  

Twin poles which are permanently attached to the spinnaker tacks and fitted with self launchers I can see the point of.  But two manual poles doesn't seem to have any advantage over one single ended self launching pole. Any ideas?  Should he scrap one pole and invest in a launch mechanism (spiro etc)?

Also, what's the procedure for gybing with two poles - presumably:
pull back pole
gybe
attach new pole
same as a single ended self launcher in other words, but with the extra string of two poles.   Or is there some subtlety we've missed?

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NickA Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickA Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Two poles better? Posted: 10 Mar 11 at 8:03pm
	Went out in my mates new mk IV Osprey last weekend. Nice boat. Lots of string, but all of it well organised. This one is rigged with two manually launched spinny poles. Anyone know what the advantage is supposed to be? Twin poles which are permanently attached to the spinnaker tacks and fitted with self launchers I can see the point of. But two manual poles doesn't seem to have any advantage over one single ended self launching pole. Any ideas? Should he scrap one pole and invest in a launch mechanism (spiro etc)? Also, what's the procedure for gybing with two poles - presumably: pull back pole gybe attach new pole same as a single ended self launcher in other words, but with the extra string of two poles. Or is there some subtlety we've missed?
	Javelin 558 Contender 2574

SoggyBadger Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Oct 10 Location: The Wild Wood Online Status: Offline Posts: 552	Post Options Post Reply Quote SoggyBadger Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Mar 11 at 9:17pm
	It's all down to personal preference. When I used to race Ospreys I used one single-ended pole at a time when most people were using double-ended poles. The advantage of having two single-ended poles is that the crew never has to reach around the mast to fish the one pole out after a gybe but I'm not convinced you'd save much time really. I suppose the ultimate would be twin self-launching poles with twinning lines but the more string there is the more there is to go wrong which is why my personal preference is for a single pole.
	Best wishes from deep in the woods SB

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Mar 11 at 9:42am
	Nick, We are in the process of fitting a twin Spirro and twin carbon poles to our 505. They don't seem that common over this side of the atlantic, however most competitive boats have them in the US, if you look at some of the videos on Youtube you can see how smooth and quick the gybes are with a twin launching system. We certainly can not wait to get the system fitted to our boat (although its BLOODY expensive) I think the secret to having a smooth system is using a 'Lazy Guy' system. Basically you have a sheet and a guy. There is loads of info on Sailing Anarchy. The parts for my system should be with me Mid-April, once i have set my boat up with the system i will happily send some photos. Twin launching poles seems to be the latest must have gadget for 5oh sailers, although as i understand it various twin poles systems have been around in the fleet since the 70's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nys-EoL2D64&feature=player_embedded Is a great video showing some gybs with a twin pole system.


NickA Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickA Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Mar 11 at 12:25pm
	Very nice! Even has port and starboard coloured launch ropes .... I guess launching the wrong pole is a sure fire way to go swimming!
	Javelin 558 Contender 2574

Mike Holt Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 29 Nov 09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 58	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike Holt Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Mar 11 at 11:38pm
	Gybing with the twin pole integrated sheet and guy set up is ridiculously easy.

NickA Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickA Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 11 at 7:12pm
	Wow (youtube vid), you'd have trouble gybing an asymetric faster than that. Lot of string tho.
	Javelin 558 Contender 2574

patj Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 16 Jul 04 Location: Wiltshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 643	Post Options Post Reply Quote patj Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 11 at 7:01am
	There's good articles on twin pole setup and spinnaker handling in the library of the Merlin Rocket class assoc website. I haven't seen a twin launcher before but am now tempted for the Merlin. Edited by patj - 26 Mar 11 at 7:10am

timeintheboat Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 615	Post Options Post Reply Quote timeintheboat Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 11 at 8:39am
	That does look a very neat system especially on the white spinny boat where the helm seem to do the pole leaving the crew to get on wire. How is pole height controlled? the pole seemed low on both boats.
	Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else

Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 11 at 9:03am
	Pole hight is controlled the same as a single pole system, the rope is just spliced into a Y shape. As i set the system up on my boat i will add stage by stage guide on my blog and post the address up here. I should have all the kit early April. Thre is no doubt that the twin launching poles are quicker and smoother then our current single pole method. Especially with idiots like us in the boat.


Ruscoe Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ruscoe Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jun 11 at 10:34am
	Right i now have the system set up on my boat, a few more tweaks are needed but essentially i am now ready for the nationals next week. I will get some photos and possibly a shore side video of the system up over the next few weeks. One thing i will say is from the drills we have been doing its so so sweet. The kite stays filled whilst gybing (i know it should with single pole but easier said then done) With the separate guy and sheet system you literally pull out the new pole and hit the wire probably 5 seconds between gybes. we were previously probably 20 seconds at best (if we are honest) but probably 30 seconds by the time we had stopped fecking about. Down side is almost certainly the cost, i have not fully calculated how much i have spent on the system but early fag packet calculations suggest around £750-800, which is obviously not cheap. We will see if its worth it next week at the nationals, bit worrying as i have not used the system in anger yet, i am sailing with a new helm with a complete new set of sails (from a new maker) so quite a few variables to go wrong.