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Tacking in a boats water |
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jeffers 
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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 Topic: Tacking in a boats waterPosted: 20 Jul 09 at 1:30pm |
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Right then....for all those out there who like to digest these... Picture this: 3 boats, all on port. Boat 1 (WW) is to wndward of the other 2 boats but is clear astern of them both. Boat 2 (MD) is the 'middle' boat of the 3 and is clear ahead of boat 1 but overlapped to leeward by boat 2 (LW) Boat 3 (LW) is the leeward of the 3 boats and is clear ahead of boat 1 (but not by much) and overlapped on MD Approaching the starboard layline. MD tacks on to startboard (no issues here, they are clear enough ahead so they do not impede WW by their actions). WW sails high then tries for a late duck just as LW decides to tack. As LW starts to head up to tack they allow WW to become overlapped to windward of them. WW then has nowhere to go, they are committed to the duck and can only tack in the gap (tiny) gap, there is not enough room for them to duck further and duck LW. My question is did LW have the rights to tack (I am crap with diagrams but hopefully you can picture it). For the record I was WW and I did do turns as I was not sure, it was not until after I had the though that perhaps LW should not have tacked where they did. He and I had a quick chat after but neither of us could decide who was right or who was wrong. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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gordon
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Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 20 Jul 09 at 4:58pm |
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From the start: MD changes course and gives WW room to keep clear (no issue) MD passes head to wind and keeps clear of WW from that moment until she is on a close hauled course (no issue) MD acqires right of way and gives WW room to keep clear (no issue). WW on port ducks to keep of MD on starboard (no issue). At this point WW is keeping clear of LW (no issue). LW changes course by luffing. As right of way boat she is obliged to give room to WW to keep clear. According to the evidence given WW cannot bear away further, neither does she have room to tack in a seamanlike manner. According to the evidence given it looks like LW broke rule 16.1 by not giving WW room to keep clear and should take a penalty. Two points - 1.LW may well provide contradictory evidence that WW did have room 2. There is no evidence that LW had passed heard to wind. if she had done so she is obliged to keep clear of WW Rule 16 puts an obligation on a ROW boat to ensure that her change of course does not put a keep clear boat in a position that requires her to make unseamanlike manoeuvres to fulfill her obligation to keep clear. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Garry
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Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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Posted: 20 Jul 09 at 5:09pm |
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If windward was ducking MD on starboard then MD is an obstruction and LW must give WW room if they are overlapped. So might there be a rule 19 (is it now) infringement as well as 16?
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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gordon
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 20 Jul 09 at 5:34pm |
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Agreed, but as I understand it WW had room to duck until LW changed course. It is the ROW boat's cahange of course that creates WW's difficulty.
Gordon |
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Gordon
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Jon Meadowcroft
Groupie 
Joined: 26 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 64 |
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Posted: 20 Jul 09 at 11:23pm |
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Tacking boat keeps clear Boat acquiring right of way keeps clear Lots of obligations on LW accordingly Given that it sounds like you were ducking as LW tacked sounds like you maybe could have carried on? Anyway without diagram impossible to say more but I would not want to be LW in the protest room with the facts as you portray them. |
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gordon
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 20 Jul 09 at 11:35pm |
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Not sure that LW acquires a right of way. Initially LW was clear ahead (i.e. ROW) and then is leeward boat (the rule that gives her ROW changes but she is still ROW boat).
LW would only be subject to rule 13 if she had passed head to wind. However , Jeffers claims that LW was only heading up to tack. A boat luffing, but not having passed beyond head to wind, is not tacking (technically - is not subject to rule 13). We come back to a ROW boat changing course - rule 16.1. When LW changed course did she give WW room (as in the definition) to keep clear? Gordon |
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Gordon
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jeffers
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Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 09 at 9:26am |
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What happened at the end of the scenarios was that LW tacked leaving WW a gap of aorund 1 boat length to tack in. I managed this but there was some contact (hence why I did turns to cover my transom as it were). To be honest I should not have got myself in the situation as it was (a poor tactical call trying to cover slower boats, I was in the 8.1 they were in standard Lasers).
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 09 at 10:33am |
*If* LW's story agreed with yours or if there were other witnesses that agreed with your story I would reckon I would DSQ LW. Of course in practice everyone has a different view of what went on and the PC has to make their best guess as to what actually happened. |
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alstorer
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Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 09 at 11:16am |
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Related one then, happened a few weeks back. I was crew on boat A in this situation to make things clear where the viewpoint is
A is on Stbd. B on Port. If no action was taken, A would possibly clip B's wing at the stern, possibly with their own wing rather than the bow, but more likely would have passed (just) behind. B tacks onto stbd on A's track. Whilst they spin the boat round quickly and sheet in, in doing so they manage to stall the boat. A has to try and bear off very quickly, but can't possibly do it quickly enough. Contact. B claims to be in the right as they'd completed the tack and were "clear ahead". A contends they were not given reasonable oppertunity to keep clear. NB: this isn't the only time this day they pull the same manouver with similar result (but with a different A each time). |
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Al |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 09 at 11:40am |
Case 17 certainly means that they can stall the boat and still have right of way, but it seems to me that Rule 15 might well apply... This sounds like a situation that would be well worth a protest if B is a regular offender... It would be essential to sort out third party witnesses though. |
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