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MASSIVE JUDGMENT AGAINST LASER PERFORMANCE
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ACLI View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 8:17am
Theres been no reference to this in y&y unless I've missed it.
https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Jury-Verdict.pdf
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JimC View Drop Down
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As it stands this case is not very significant (except to the lawyers' families who will doubtless be getting a very nice summer holiday this year). Laser branded boats are now built by Laser Performance LLC who didn't feature in this lawsuit, and the Laser Trademark in Europe is I believe held by an offshore company called Velum, who also didn't feature. Laser Performance (Europe) is now a dormant empty shell of a company which one doubts will be paying any damages any time soon, and I don't know about Quartermoon.

What might be of interest to sailors is the other bunch of legal proceedings inching its way millimetre by millimetre through the dysfunctional US legal system. I haven't been keeping up, but I believe that was all about the contracts that existed between Kirby's company and the Laser builders, and those contracts sought to prevent a former Laser builder and their successors being involved in building Lasers in any shape or form. If those are ever shown to have teeth then things may be more interesting. I suggest folk don't hold their breath for a final result. No doubt even the above case will be appealed and counter appealed for years yet.

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Posts: 3 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ACLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 10:11am
Precedent against Commercial judgment avoidance might have already been set see link.

I don't think you can just appeal a case (kick it down the road without new evidence) the jury were unanimous I believe.

In the meantime laser performance must  have definitely lost the trust of everyone who would risk supplying or buying from them? (Not me for sure)



Edited by ACLI - 20 Feb 20 at 10:47am
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Posts: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 20 at 8:22pm
It depends how many people out there want to buy a non class legal from them 
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 20 at 8:07am
How many people outside of the enthusiast group will know? 


For sure the vast majority of those involved in racing from club level upwards will be at least aware of this. The predominance of non genuine sails and kit in club and non class based open events suggest that a decent proportion of these people don't care about the origin of their stuff and just want to sail as cheaply as possible. Whether this will extend to the origin of the hull we will have to wait a number of years to find out as these people are unlikely to buy new.



However a significant proportion of Laser sales probably don't see a racecourse at least not in the first portion off their lives. The availability of a cheaper, similar quality and identical product will appeal to some private individuals and definitely to commercial bodies. This will undoubtedly make a dent in the income of whoever the approved builder is if it happens and since LPE own the name "Laser" in relation to a small sailing dinghy and presumably own the tooling what can anyone do top stop them?


Edited by Paramedic - 21 Feb 20 at 8:09am
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 20 at 8:27am
Originally posted by Paramedic

...since LPE own the name "Laser" in relation to a small sailing dinghy and presumably own the tooling what can anyone do top stop them?

That's exactly why this case isn't important to us and the other one about contracts is. The contracts a Laser builder had to sign were intended to force any company that ceased being a Laser builder for any reason to sell all their tooling and give up all rights and capability to build Laser like boats.

LPE, BTW, barely exists now. Laser branded boats are built by a newish company under much the same ownership called Laser Performance LLC.
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Posts: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 20 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Paramedic

How many people outside of the enthusiast group will know? 


For sure the vast majority of those involved in racing from club level upwards will be at least aware of this. The predominance of non genuine sails and kit in club and non class based open events suggest that a decent proportion of these people don't care about the origin of their stuff and just want to sail as cheaply as possible. Whether this will extend to the origin of the hull we will have to wait a number of years to find out as these people are unlikely to


I would argue that most private buyers of lasers/ILCA will know the difference because these people are doing opens/masters events/nationals etc. 
The problem could happen when none class legal boats come onto the second hand market after being sold on by sailing schools and holiday companies.

Knowing and remembering to check the correct plaque is in place when buying a laser second hand could become very important.
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Posts: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 20 at 10:50am
Originally posted by JimC

legal proceedings inching its way millimetre by millimetre


Excellent mangling of imperial and metric.   Wink
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 20 at 10:56am
Originally posted by boatshed


Originally posted by JimC

legal proceedings inching its way millimetre by millimetre

Excellent mangling of imperial and metric.   Wink
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 20 at 11:37am
Originally posted by boatshed

Excellent mangling of imperial and metric.

Although I admit I do have trouble fathoming the chain of litigation...
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