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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: National Class Scheme for Grown Ups
    Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 1:19pm
In another thread there is a suggestion that the National Class structure should be reviewed.  

Back in the day "International" and "National" status to classes did mean something, but the National status appears to have withered by the vine for many years.

I looked at this with RYA Technical over 10 years ago, and a possible scheme got kicked out by council.

The idea was to set similar criteria to achieve National status, as classes do to acheive International status, by selecting  classes that offered class racing in clubs across the country, open meetings and well attended championships, together with solid class rules.  

This would encourage those interested in fleet racing to engage with these classes rather than the classes that dilute the pool.

These classes could benefit from support from the RYA in a similar style to that provided to youth classes, in terms of promotion and training.

It is a while back, but at that time some of the classes that passed the criteria were RS200, RS400, Merlin, Solo, Laser ... I cant remember what else.

Do these ideas still have merit?
What classes could now be considered for National status?
What should be the criteria?
What benefits would there be for National classes?
What could or should the RYA do for National classes?
Do we care?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 1:34pm
Yay, lets spend lots of RYA money promoting something that quite obviously only a tiny minority want...
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 1:57pm
Davidyacht. I am sure that you have a copy of Real Magic (the story of the Merlin Rocket) - if you get to the bit where Barry Dunning makes a Merlin with a dagger board, you'll find a lot of interesting insight into the National Class  - or otherwise- debate. In short, the Nat 12s had broken that National Class link, whilst the MR class kept theirs (although it was often an AGM item) but when problems really arose....such as the issue of dagger v centreboard, the RYA technical Committee were very useful.  This is though getting ever further off topic.......

D
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

These classes could benefit from support from the RYA in a similar style to that provided to youth classes, in terms of promotion and training.


... thereby driving all the fun out of those classes too, chewing-up and spitting-out sailors who do not measure up to some goal only the RYA cares about.

Sounds like a way to encourage take up of the classes not on the list.

I'd say the classes that are thriving are the ones left more to their own devices. How is the 470 doing compared to the Fireball in the UK? Oh yes, they had 17 boats at their first nationals for 12 years. 

No thanks David


Edited by fab100 - 26 Sep 17 at 2:09pm
Great book for Club Sailors here
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Davidyacht. I am sure that you have a copy of Real Magic (the story of the Merlin Rocket) - if you get to the bit where Barry Dunning makes a Merlin with a dagger board, you'll find a lot of interesting insight into the National Class  - or otherwise- debate. In short, the Nat 12s had broken that National Class link, whilst the MR class kept theirs (although it was often an AGM item) but when problems really arose....such as the issue of dagger v centreboard, the RYA technical Committee were very useful.  This is though getting ever further off topic.......

D
That would be on Substitute ... also had a Welsh Harp kicker.  Seem to remember the present Mayor of Lymington sailing with Bungy Taylor on an extremely windy Merlin Week first morning, when they took out their transom on the mud at Widegates ... Bungy commented that it had "moved since lsat year", I guess that a daggerboard might have saved the transom.  Ironically the RYA technical committee was then the "centreboard" committee!  We had a 12 built by Spud with a rotating daggerboard which was deemed out of class by said committee, chaired by my old club mate Ken Ellis.  Thought that you would like that story Dougal.
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by JimC

Yay, lets spend lots of RYA money promoting something that quite obviously only a tiny minority want...
So Jim, have you in mind any places where RYA money could be usefully applied to develop dinghy sailing for adults ... serious question since the majority of recent threads are of the glass half empty variety ...
 

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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by davidyacht

These classes could benefit from support from the RYA in a similar style to that provided to youth classes, in terms of promotion and training.


... thereby driving all the fun out of those classes too, chewing-up and spitting-out sailors who do not measure up to some goal only the RYA cares about.

Sounds like a way to encourage take up of the classes not on the list.

I'd say the classes that are thriving are the ones left more to their own devices. How is the 470 doing compared to the Fireball in the UK? Oh yes, they had 17 boats at their first nationals for 12 years. 

No thanks David

Something to discuss in the bar in three week's time ... Salcombe is preparing for the Larks, street cleaners at the ready in case of re-enactment of the Lymington Easter trays 197? Car park moment
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

So Jim, have you in mind any places where RYA money could be usefully applied to develop dinghy sailing for adults

I'm not particularly unhappy with the way the RYA operate right now. There when needed, out of our hair when not. Most clubs could get more from the RYA than they do now *if* they wanted to.

The problem with recent threads is more with two or three vocal participants than anything else, and problems with the general operating background are more to do with society changing than anything the RYA has control of.

Edited by JimC - 26 Sep 17 at 2:23pm
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 2:46pm
Were i forced into a National Class (and the most likely class would be a Laser) i would simply walk away from sailing.

The Laser in my mind is a good boat in terms of accessibility but is not a design that is a long way out of date. if it did not have the critical mass that it does have then it would likely be consigned to the dying classes group (IMO). Don;t get me wrong I raced Lasers for 15 or so years but my body started to complain too much. I simply hurt too much for days after sailing.

One of the good withing we have in the UK is diversity of classes, there is literally something for everyone. Some might say the diversity is also a bad thing....

The RYA are there to govern the sport and support training and development. They do this through their network of RDO and coaches which are supported by SIs and DIs who deliver the courses. In terms of getting more adults in this is partially down to the clubs and training centres who are usually the first point of contact for prospective sailors.
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 17 at 3:27pm
I see this a lot with Apex organisation such as the RYA, they are constantly looking for ways to do more.....which is code for how do I stay alive and justify my job or expand my kingdom because their is cash available if I can think of ways to spend it. Why not start from the bottom up and ask what the sport needs rather than what role the RYA can play? Personally I think that what they do today is great and they should just stick at that and let people get on with their lives.
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