New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: D-One Gold Cup Scoring
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

D-One Gold Cup Scoring
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-One Gold Cup Scoring
    Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 4:57pm
True, and that's something I have done an quite a few occasions when I've had a hand in race organisation. My holiday club don't run line starts, the reason probably is that we encourage novice/non racers to take part and, as the start is possibly the most complex part of the race, beach starts allow them to join in with minimum embarrassment. It does seem to work as we've managed 20+ boats at nearly every race this year ranging from Mirrors and a Devon Coble to a Musto and a 49er.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 21 Sep 16 at 4:57pm
Back to Top
Tom J View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 10 May 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 16 at 3:55pm
Err... for 99% of events the SIs on tie breaks (or anything else) don't have to follow the ISAF / World Sailing format. The rules and guidance are written primarily for top end of the sport but as has been pointed out that doesn't make it necessarily applicable to everyone. It's not gospel, event organisers should use it as a basis and then tailor them to suit whatever participants are involved.

Obviously not all clubs or classes will want to deviate from the guidance but if you don't like an SI there's nothing to stop you questioning it or suggesting an alternative with the organisers...
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Saraband

Giving some relevance to the last race score at least keeps more of the fleet on the water for the last race, rather than seeing the event leaders bailing out after perhaps just one race on the last day so they can get back ashore for an early shower and pack-up.........personally I need all the races I can to get anywhere decent a score!

But if the hotshots take an early bath it gives us ordinary mortals a chance of at least one decent race result to brag about  Wink
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 5:23pm
Last event I did had a non discardable last race. Happened to boost us up the fleet, having had a bad first day, but I'm not entirely happy with the concept. Why not no discards, and accept that bad luck is just the way life is sometimes.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Saraband View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 19 Jun 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Saraband Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 4:34pm
Giving some relevance to the last race score at least keeps more of the fleet on the water for the last race, rather than seeing the event leaders bailing out after perhaps just one race on the last day so they can get back ashore for an early shower and pack-up.........personally I need all the races I can to get anywhere decent a score!
Back to Top
Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 07 Mar 12
Location: Manchester UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3401 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 1:39pm
Change for changes sake very often I feel. Many years ago we used the discards to break ties, then it became common practice to use 'count back' with the most first places, then the most seconds etc and now this daft 'medal race' system! If you're going to do a 'medal race' then do just that, all previous races are qualifiers, the top ten get into the medal race and whoever wins gets the gold. OTOH I definitely wouldn't favour that method and count back seems the fairest to me. I also preferred the ¾ point for first place race winners bonus which served to reduce the likelihood of a tie but that's long gone too.
Back to Top
JohnJack View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 12 Mar 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by JimC

If we accept discards as being a way of coping with bad luck it makes sense for discards to be discards.
Last race count back is a crude way of identifying someone who has been getting faster as the series progresses, which is as worthy an aim as any.

But what if you have your bad luck in the last race, surely using the discard rewards better overall performance?

We once did a handicap regatta with three races, last race was worth double and counted. Bit like a gold medal race. We won the first two races, then the course was changed before race three because "we were getting too much of an advantage by putting the spinnaker up" which nullified any spinnaker legs.

We came second in R3 and second over all with a (1),1,4 = 5
The winner had a (5),2,2 = 4

Felt a little hard done by.........
Back to Top
davidyacht View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 29 Mar 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Cirrus

I personally fail to see what on earth was wrong with breaking ties by looking at the discards ... 'best' discard being the decider.  If  the first discard does not break the tie ... then the second etc.  This will break the vast majority of 'ties'.  If still 'tied' after all discards considered I'd then declare a (very rare) 'draw' myself. 

Last race decider ?  In a series what really is so special about it ....  Oh I forgot it is for the 'spectators' is it not - we are trying to garner their interest of course are we not for the long term benefit of sailing.  Poor muppets can't understand our 'old-fashioned' confusing competition or will not get excited about it  otherwise is the patronising assumption.   When are 'those who decide' going to realise .... Sailing is primarily a participant sport and 'medal races' and last race 'deciders' as a tactic are not making a blind bit of difference to outside interest levels anyway.   Worthy aims sure - but is anyone convinced it is working at all ?


Maybe when sailing has been dropped from the Olympics we will be able to go back to two hour races, triangle sausage triangle, finishes at a windward mark and tie breaks on the discard
Happily living in the past
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 10:34am
If we accept discards as being a way of coping with bad luck it makes sense for discards to be discards.
Last race countback is a crude way of identifying someone who has been getting faster as the series progresses, which is as worthy an aim as any.
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 16 at 10:33am
Broken on the result of the last race ... seems fair enough and simple to understand without having to revert to the full series scores.

You always need to brake ties ...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy