Self bailers on rowing skiffs

   Its not exactly dinghy development but having watched another boat race where one of the teams gets swamped I have often wondered why they don't fit the sort of self bailers used in dinghies. 

They could be sealed but able to be kicked open by the cox in times of massive water ingress.

The boats certainly go fast enough for them to work. 

Is there some rule that prevents them from having them?

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rogerd Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076	Post Options Post Reply Quote rogerd Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Self bailers on rowing skiffs Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 8:18pm
	Its not exactly dinghy development but having watched another boat race where one of the teams gets swamped I have often wondered why they don't fit the sort of self bailers used in dinghies. They could be sealed but able to be kicked open by the cox in times of massive water ingress. The boats certainly go fast enough for them to work. Is there some rule that prevents them from having them?

Noah Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611	Post Options Post Reply Quote Noah Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 08 Apr 16 at 8:56pm
	I'm not sure they would cope with the volumes. Then there's the corruption to the exterior skin surface. Even closed there would be an impact, open even I notice the difference in the 'ball in medium breeze. They always leak, too. Additional weight? I know the pumps weigh a heck of a lot, but they have the option to take them or not depending on conditions. I guess bailers could be re-engineered in an exotic material (titanium), given the funds they probably have available, but I think they would still weigh more than a few sq cm of carbon and resin. OTOH Perhaps they've never thought of it or tried it 😀
	Nick D-Zero 316

DiscoBall Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 03 Jan 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 305	Post Options Post Reply Quote DiscoBall Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 16 at 9:15am
	Don't know the rules for rowing boats. In flatwater kayaking there's a rule preventing any bailing devices that affect the hull surface so they basically have a footpump exiting out of the deck. It's a bit backward, but kayaking doesn't really do 'development' in the way dinghy sailing does. For surfskis - that race on the sea - they are allowed bailers - there's a mix of small andersons, some new plastic versions (http://www.epickayaks.com/article/article/epic-bailer) and simple holes cut in the bottom of the boat with some sort of fairing on the outside.

rogerd Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076	Post Options Post Reply Quote rogerd Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 16 at 9:50am
	Yes they would be slightly heavier but not as much as a boat full of water. I guess the boat race is one of the few run in rough water for these types of boat but as you say the resources must be available. I am always impressed by how quickly the water is removed from a boat. I suspect as mentioned its a rule thing. At the end of the day its good TV to watch them sinking.

Time Lord Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 03 Dec 13 Location: Warwickshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 301	Post Options Post Reply Quote Time Lord Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 09 Apr 16 at 12:04pm
	As I understand things from listening to the boat race commentary, both of the eights had electric pumps and batteries to power them. These did not prevent the ladies eight from being full of water but it was noticeable that when they got into calmer water that the gunnels were soon well above the water level.
	Merlin Rocket 3609

DaveT Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 31 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 76	Post Options Post Reply Quote DaveT Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Apr 16 at 8:33pm
	I can't of an area flat enough to mount one even on a big eight, coastal boats often seem to have them but they are much wider

Oinks Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Oct 14 Location: Bandol Online Status: Offline Posts: 267	Post Options Post Reply Quote Oinks Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Apr 16 at 9:16pm
	Why is the forum talking about rowing boats?

Time Lord Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 03 Dec 13 Location: Warwickshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 301	Post Options Post Reply Quote Time Lord Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 10 Apr 16 at 10:10pm
	Perhaps because it has little to do with PY???
	Merlin Rocket 3609

Rupert Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rupert Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 8:10am
	Does a 4 ever row against an 8, or a Cornish gig against a Thames hire boat? No, thought not...
	Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686

Presuming Ed Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641	Post Options Post Reply Quote Presuming Ed Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 11 Apr 16 at 9:02am
	Oarsmen do use handicaps for age-related (veteran) rowing. Simple time allowance for age, IIRC. Plus they group boats according to skill. Beginners don't race against experienced crews. Fine boats' footwells aren't linked (at least not any more). Rocker is barely existent (an eight is about 65' long (with a rudder half the size of a credit card)). So you would need more than one bailer, and I can't think of a single crew who would accept the extra drag over a pump. Also, rowing very rarely takes place in boat swamping conditions. Normally called off if the weather is too bad. It's pretty much only the boat race that goes ahead come what may.