Slipping Main Halyard

   I have some nice new sails which are stiff as stiff.  Whenever I put the kicker or cunningham on, the sail drops down the mast a bit.  Between races we're hoiking the main sail back up the mast.  It's not a new halyard, so I doubt it's stretching; so must be the halyard slipping in the cleat. 
I could use stickier halyard rope perhaps (recommendations?) and/or get a sharp new V-Cleat (to eat away the new rope).

But there must be some better way than friction to hold up the main (yes I know, halyard lock; sadly it's complicated and likely not class legal).

I have seen a few boats with a dyneema halyard with a loop on the end that slips over a "toothed rack" at the mast foot; this seems a really good idea, but hardly anyone uses it.  What's the drawback?  Anyone know?

Author	Message Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic
NickA Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickA Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Slipping Main Halyard Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 7:09pm
	I have some nice new sails which are stiff as stiff. Whenever I put the kicker or cunningham on, the sail drops down the mast a bit. Between races we're hoiking the main sail back up the mast. It's not a new halyard, so I doubt it's stretching; so must be the halyard slipping in the cleat. I could use stickier halyard rope perhaps (recommendations?) and/or get a sharp new V-Cleat (to eat away the new rope). But there must be some better way than friction to hold up the main (yes I know, halyard lock; sadly it's complicated and likely not class legal). I have seen a few boats with a dyneema halyard with a loop on the end that slips over a "toothed rack" at the mast foot; this seems a really good idea, but hardly anyone uses it. What's the drawback? Anyone know?
	Javelin 558 Contender 2574

NHRC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Posting king Joined: 13 Dec 13 Location: Lymington Online Status: Offline Posts: 102	Post Options Post Reply Quote NHRC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 7:52pm
	Halyard locks are very simple... Great addition. Your clear is most likely your biggest issue with your current system.

FreshScum Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Groupie Joined: 27 Apr 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 99	Post Options Post Reply Quote FreshScum Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 7:56pm
	The other thing that could be happening that only halyard locks can prevent is that your mast is bending when kicker/cunningham is applied. This means that the main will fall and inch, give or take, when these controls are applied and there is nothing you can do about it. A good halyard in a good cleat does not slip enough to be a problem. If you make sure that your halyard is longer than it needs to be, then you can regularly move where the halyard is being cleated, lengthening the effective life of the halyard.

Paramedic Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929	Post Options Post Reply Quote Paramedic Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 7:56pm
	There isn't really a drawback, it works quite well like that. 2:1 halyard is the other option. The rack is a wear point, but dyneema is pretty good from the wear point of view. Halyard locks are great when they work, a total liability when they dont! :)

Lukepiewalker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lukepiewalker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 10:01pm
	Disadvantage of a hook rack is the knot for the loop weakening the rope (most of us have plenty of strength in reserve though, so not really an issue). The knot for the loop needs to be able to pass through any holes in the mast for an internal halyard and/or allow enough travel so you can detach it, you don't want it getting jammed in the sheave at the top of the mast (it might be able to pass through the sheave easily, in which case you're ok). Of course they offer pretty good repeatability, once the braid of the rope and the knots have settled, you know you are putting it in the same place every time.
	Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"

craiggo Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810	Post Options Post Reply Quote craiggo Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 10:09pm
	No need for knots, just splice the loop and splice the tail onto it. Worked really well on the 49er. The problem with cleats is that they tend to wear from pulling the sail up with the halyard running through the cleat, also there is always a bit of creep as the rope binds between the jaws.

NickA Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 784	Post Options Post Reply Quote NickA Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 10:54pm
	Like craigo says, was my plan. Nice strong H Bummel lock splice with a mousing line through it to pull it down to the rack. PS don't mind the sail coming down a bit when the Cunningham goes on ... So long as it goes back up again without me hauling on the halyard.☺

Lukepiewalker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 May 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1341	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lukepiewalker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 15 at 11:07pm
	Indeed, that is the plaster man if your rope construction allows it. Originally most of them had a wire halyard with a rope tail (this was usually spliced 3 strand rope, I think it was a rule or something...), the rope was always slightly too big to fit through the hole in the mast without some wrestling, and being not particularly robust would slowly get sawn through by the halyard.
	Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard" Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch" Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air" Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"

gordon1277 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 24 Mar 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 665	Post Options Post Reply Quote gordon1277 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 8:35am
	Hi I had this issue last year after replacing the rope. I think the new rope just kills and old cleat so replace the cleat and you should be fine. My old boat had a wire halyard and rack, worked really well. Good luck. Gordon
	Gordon Lossc

JohnJack Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Mar 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 246	Post Options Post Reply Quote JohnJack Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 20 Apr 15 at 9:00am
	We have had this problem on the Scorpion (which is probably the first boat I have sailed that has a single camcleat/v-jammer holding the halliard We haul the sail up and find the point at where the halliard sits in the cleat. We then put a small loop in the halliard at this point (one that will 'slip' out easily). We then thread the tail of the halliard through this to give us a 2:1 (there is a halliard block under the cleat) and pull the knot down so that when cleat the knot sits up against the lower face of the cleat with the halliard in the cleat. Not sure how clear that is?? Maybe a picture would be best. However it works very well the main cant budge (we used a D-12 Halliard)