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A fresh think about PFDs

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Poll Question: Should personal floatation devices be mandatory for 18+ dinghy races?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
33 [64.71%]
16 [31.37%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [3.92%]
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A fresh think about PFDs
    Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 11:27pm
So I've been thinking about this lately, is time to challenge the Group Think on this again>

PFDs- what's your view?

(For the benefit of the poll, please restrict this to Adult only sailing / competitors)
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 14 at 11:29pm
They'd be better off making them advisory along with helmets.
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 6:32am
put simply yes, a club that tells it's members PFDs are "optional" leaves itself open to every ambulance chaser going should the worst happen and someone get seriously hurt or worse...
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Brass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 7:17am
Originally posted by kneewrecker

So I've been thinking about this lately, is time to challenge the Group Think on this again

Isn't Group-Think where a cohesive group makes decisions contrary to scientific or objective evidence?

Before you 'challenge the Group-Think', maybe you should 'confront the science', and 'consider the politics'.

There's abundant research demonstrating 'lifejackets save lives'.

I realise that some of the research is question-begging, and some sponsored by organisations with a clear bias or preconception, but at least some of it rigorous, and I would challenge you to find any research demonstrating that wearing of lifejackets or other PFD has no significant effect.

I don't think you can 'buck the science'.

Face facts, you already live in a nanny-state:  even the Scots weren't able to break free.

HSE legally obliges the wearing of lifejackets by employees working near water.  The Irish have legislation requiring wearing of lifejackets as have Australian States, and I believe America.

I don't think you can 'buck the politics' either.

It's important for sailing not to be seen as opposing 'reasonable and necessary requirements', in other words, on safety matters, sailing should strive to keep 'ahead of the curve', not oppose it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Xpletive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 8:21am
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by kneewrecker

So I've been thinking about this lately, is time to challenge the Group Think on this again
There's abundant research demonstrating 'lifejackets save lives'.

Well that's dealt with the yotties. What about buoyancy aids?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 8:38am
No, they shouldn't. Now, clubs should have the right to have in their rules that they are, but on a light wind day (thinking back to river sailing days), I see windsurfers, SUP riders, rowers, drunks on powerboats and a plethora of other water users, all far more likely to get wet than me in a stable dinghy, yet I'm the one wearing the BA.

Some sort of personal choice (and to go with it, personal responsibility, so, my choice, my concequences) would be nice.

Now, once there is more risk of a capsize than of falling off a SUP, with bumped heads on booms then involving safety boats and other people who might be put at risk because of my actions, then organizers should have the right to say "wear BAs".

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Noah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 8:55am
I don't really know whether they should be mandated or not. It depends on the situation. Personally, I feel naked without one - a bit like not wearing a seat belt in the car. The puddle club I joined after 2 decades out of sailing doesn't mandate during the summer series (April-October), but it's an average of 1.5m deep and less than 2 mins end-to-end in a powerboat. (Notably, the leaseholder was persuaded many years ago to allow engines on safety grounds!) Winter series races are sailed under code 'Y', meaning PFD is mandatory.

The two coastal clubs that I've been a member of since both mandate their use.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 9:09am
They remain a hindrance in my book, if you are at all adept in the water, then buoyancy 'aids' hinder and tire. They make it more difficult to extract yourself, either from under anything or to climb out of the water onto a rescue craft or back into your own boat and they definitely hinder swimming speed and distance.

We (and I was particularly vocal in the battle) fought very hard not to have them enforced on us as windsurfers, (yet you will often see kids wearing them at team fifteen level), The argument we made also at the time was that death bags dry suits in themselves over supply buoyancy, and diving out from under the sail, which fortunately for us was perceived as a greater risk than it actually was, is made more difficult by excess buoyancy. we also pointed out that modern wetsuits also encompassed positive buoyancy. (You don't see surfers who are active in the critical section of waves wearing the damned things)

So it should be about personal choice, no one wants to stop folk who are cagey about their in water competency, but nor should the competent be hampered, I really think not encouraging the use of helmets amongst newcomers is a greater failing personally the number of nasty bangs I've endured and I use one.

Edited by iGRF - 30 Sep 14 at 9:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 9:39am
Originally posted by iGRF

I really think not encouraging the use of helmets amongst newcomers is a greater failing personally the number of nasty bangs I've endured and I use one.


My own personal experience of helmuts is that you lose a certain something (awareness, balance etc) and you bump your head far more. Thinking back I never bumped my head with a harness, but did everytime with a helmut.

Agree on BAs. Again, it is probably because I was a windsurfer first and when you are in big waves, massive rips (far more severe stuff than dinghy sailors put up with), the last thing you want is a BA in the way.
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 10:21am
What is the greatest risk to a dinghy sailor?

Entrapment I'd say ... does a BA help or hinder in entrapment cases?
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