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The weight of things to come...

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iGRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:00am
How long I've been cracking on about the stupid weight of things and the propensity of all concerned to keep things 'heavy' allegedly for the benefit of all those previous owners that of course still support the given class in droves - Not.

Will, following the brave move from RS with their innovative Aero, we finally see a trend to get to grips with the hernia inducing nature of this stupid pursuit?

Will we maybe see a composite Farr 3.7 at 35kgs, what about the Heavyweight 'Contender'?

I had a vigorous discussion with the chaps who were chucking away a fine opportunity with the Buzz relaunch as they were clinging to the same ole same ole keep the none existent class members with their 90 kilo old tubs happy.

I bet everyone who picked up the Aero couldn't believe anything could be so light, but every other boat other than the D Zero which wasn't quite as light, but is probably proportionately weightier given there's more of it.

It was the one thing that made me initially happy about the EPS when I first lifted it onto the trailer single handed which was a first for me. Even the RS100 needed someone else to help a lot of time especially to position it for a bit of beach dragging..

The Vortex has shed 18 kgs I hear, I couldn't get to lift that, but any weight saving has to be good.

So how's your class doing regarding weight loss, is there anyone else on a diet?

Edited by iGRF - 03 Mar 14 at 11:01am
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:06am
Nervousness of build quality aside, I'd be cautious of going 'too light' as handling onto and off the trolley can become a cow.... even with a bare mast up you need to be careful with leaving something like a 600 or MPS head-to-wind without tying it down and they are substantially heavier than either the D-Zero or Aero which inspires this thread.

I'm also not fond of single handers which fall over as soon as leave it for 3 or 4 second to pull a trolley up a ramp.... that was one major difference I noted between the prototype 100 and the production one. 

However we shouldn't make too much judgements on existing classes and their minimum weights- that's part of that specific game, hence why I accepted the lead flashing bolted to the the bottom of my Solo without any real feeling towards it.  

I can see where dead classes who resurrect their old weight might be a bit of contentious point- sounds like the Vortex have been conservative, but going in the right direction, whereas the Buzz is maintaining something for a small portfolio of customers who couldn't save itself the first time around.




Edited by yellowwelly - 03 Mar 14 at 11:18am
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:16am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

.... even with a bare mast up you need to be careful with leaving something like a 600 or MPS head-to-wind without tying it down and they are substantially heavier than either the D-Zero or Aero which inspires this thread.

Not really - I believe the D-0 and Musto Skiff have identical hull weights ... of course the D-0 will have a lighter rig, no wings and so will be lighter all up.

I noted at the show both the D-0 & Aero were prototypes ...

I think we should reserve judgement and see what both production boats come in at all-up weight as that is the only figure that matters.

I suspect the Zero & Aero will both be in the same ball park weight wise all up ... about 60kgs ... which is still very light for an all up weight.

Anyone know the all up weight of a Laser? I'd guess 85kgs ...???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:16am

You see Graeme this is the thing.  If you want out and out performance and speed than i dare suggest you want something as light as possible.  However if you want something to be useable, well built and long lasting then you have to allow for a little compromise.  Sailing is ALL about compromise.  You can have the fastest set of sails in the world for one wind speed but they will be the slowest for a different speed, you can have the fastest planning hull shape, which will be a dog in a drifter.  You can design a boat that foils, which will struggle in lighter conditions....etc.

 

So in my mind often the best all round boats are compromises that satisfy all points of sailing.  For me the only time i really care about boat weight is moving the thing around the dinghy park. 

 

This kind of leads me onto another point about speed.  We don’t have a Dinghy speed week (unless i have missed something obvious)  so the fact one class is faster than another is kind of moot point.  As we all know the ultimate dinghy racing is class racing (theoretically all should be nearly the same speed) or handicap racing, where we have a handicapping system that should see any speed advantage controlled so ultimately its human influence that wins the day.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:21am
Originally posted by 2547

 Not really - I believe the D-0 and Musto Skiff have identical hull weights ... of course the D-0 will have a lighter rig, no wings and so will be lighter all up.

no bun fight, but I'd include wings and deck gear in the hull weight measurement myself.  Which is essentially agreeing with you... all up static weight is what counts and we can reserve judgement until we see them on some scales.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:28am
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by 2547

 Not really - I believe the D-0 and Musto Skiff have identical hull weights ... of course the D-0 will have a lighter rig, no wings and so will be lighter all up.

no bun fight, but I'd include wings and deck gear in the hull weight measurement myself.  Which is essentially agreeing with you... all up static weight is what counts and we can reserve judgement until we see them on some scales.

I think it would be more helpful if data like this was published as there is a lot of BS published by some suppliers under the description of "hull weights"


Perhaps we could develop a thread here where by owners could weigh their boats and share the facts. I suspect some people would be staggered at the sailing weight of their craft ...

Of course if you have a one-design or dev class which has a certificate you know exactly what you have paid for ...


Edited by 2547 - 03 Mar 14 at 11:28am
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:42am
Well from my world, we inevitably went too far, and light boards inevitably didn't last, but, dingoes are a world away from where we are, in our world 3metre 90 long boards are 'heavy' if they exceed 16 kilos, even back in the day 18 kgs was the norm and the Olympic OD 375 board was 14.5 and some of them are still kicking around many years later.

OK, Dinghies (no pun intended here) are bigger and more voluminous so one would expect them to be heavier, but it is 2014 and there are some very heavy old tubs still about that need a serious diet. Purely on health and safety grounds alone I believe the limit for a single person lift has reduced from 32kgs down to 25 kgs.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:42am
I do agree with you Russ. If the production weights are in the 30 to 40kg range and if the boats prove to be durable, it will make some of the small single handed classes think about reducing their hull weight. Classes like, comet (hull weight 50kg), streaker ( hull weight 48kg) or even my class, British Moth( hull weight 45kg).

On the other hand I don't think anything with make solo sailors vote for a weight reduction. Do hope I am wrong.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 11:43am
Sounds like a good idea.... I know I have been dissuaded from weighing new boats before collecting them in the past.  It wasn't necessary for my Solo- it had been independently weighed as part of the measurement process.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 14 at 12:14pm
The thing that continually gets me, oh er it's not heavy enough, you must add some lead first before you try to lift it on that trailer, tow it to the event, lift it off the trailer, sail it about..

Never mind the carbon footprint extra lead brings to the not very green equation, er just plain why?

Are you stupid or something Forest?
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