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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 12:57pm
Unless I make the effort to train them up for the season, my feeble, stalk-like arms often struggle to pull me up onto centreboards.  Must exercise more.

Or so I thought until one day I shocked myself by springing up onto the board with ease at a time when I wasn't very fit.  Upon returning to the changing room at the end of the day, I found my "slimline" buoyancy aid hanging on the hook...

Since then, I've noticed that the b.a. tends to get hooked on the edge of the board, killing my upward momentum (I'm sure we'd all agree that getting up there is a dynamic matter, as much as a slow test of strength).

So I looked at the macho-looking Gill Compressor Vest 

But I'm not convinced that it would make such a difference as I'd like.

Now I discover kiteboard impact vests such as

These seem much slimmer.  OK, they aren't 50N, but combined with a wet-suit, how much buoyancy do you really need? - I'd suggest very little.  After all, skiff sailors avoid using b.a.'s at all, while in my incident related above, I absolutely did not notice the lack of a b.a. as I made my way round the boat in the water to the board.

Any experiences? I'm awfully afraid this might be one for Grumph...
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 1:40pm
How about wearing a rash vest over the top?
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 1:53pm
Would a rash vest properly smooth out the lumpy edge of the b.a.?  I suspect it would just 'give' to allow the b.a. foam to engage the edge of the board.  Plus, I like to keep the shoulder straps available to rescue crews in case they ever need to haul me out unconscious!
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:02pm
This isn't meant to sound flippant (but no doubt will), but how often are you capsizing?

Is there something there that could be fixed, rather than changing your kit to make recovery easier?
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:29pm
Not that often, but that means when it does it is more unexpected so, e.g. I'm not thinking about getting my leg over the side as soon as a novice might.

Capsizes happen , and when they happen to me these days they are typically in horrendous weather when more might be expected, and the last thing I want its to be out there wondering how many more board-leaps my arms have got in them.  OK, on the Medway there's always the welcoming mud of the shore to rest up on, but that's bad for my self-esteem!

From talking to others, it would appear that b.a.'s are an encumbrance even if it's not immediately evident as in my case.  But for the b.a.-less recovery, I'd never have realised.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Any experiences? I'm awfully afraid this might be one for Grumph...


Fundamental reason why I use one.
They enable you to swim real fast if you have to catch up with an errant boat with crew dangling over the side with the mainsheet wrapped around his leg..

They allow you to spring back onto the centreboard and back over the side of the boat with no problem.

They save you from breaking your rib completely when you temporarily use a rival helm to do a distance race and he decides to step into the boat to untangle the spinnaker from the lee side and you hit the zimmer thing in the middle of the boat.

They also make diving down under the boat to have a look inside to see if your crew is in there before you go looking for what he's gone and done with himself this time..

Finally they permit you to continue to hang out with normal folk without looking like a rooster lederhosen, gill infested, yellow booted, beer towel butted, spotty nose running dinghy sailor..

In a saying, 'dignity before dignitas' and you can quote me
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

 OK, they aren't 50N, but combined with a wet-suit, how much buoyancy do you really need? - I'd suggest very little.

If class rules/Y call for buoyancy aids, then: 

RRS 40 PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICES
When flag Y is displayed with one sound before or with the warning signal, competitors shall wear personal flotation devices, except briefly while changing or adjusting clothing or personal equipment. Wet suits and dry suits are not personal flotation devices.

RYA prescription 40 Personal Flotation Devices
When a rule requires a personal flotation device to be worn, the device shall comply with the specifications for the personal flotation devices that the boat is required to carry. If more than one specification applies, the personal flotation device worn shall comply with the highest of them.

Specs for buoyancy aids/life jackets are found in ISO 12402, with the lowest level being the 50N standard. 


Edited by Presuming Ed - 25 Oct 13 at 2:40pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:41pm
More nanny bureaucrats.

Which one do you use, Grumph?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:42pm
Clothing sure makes a difference. These days I only wear a sleeveless wetsuit because I find that the extra drag on my arms really takes it out of me. If its too cold for the long john I don't go sailing!

More buoyancy does have advantages as well as disadvantages for getting out of the water though. A few more inches out of the water really halps getting on that daggerboard

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

More nanny bureaucrats.
Which one do you use, Grumph?


I use the Dakine Impact vest, I used to sell, I think that's what it's called, hell it's only been a year and I've forgotten it's name already, I've had it a number of years, Presuming Ed is right they don't have a lot of buoyancy they are designed to protect against impact, but as you rightly point out, combine it with a wetsuit or a dry suit even in the winter and you already have sufficient in my view for it to be dangerous.
As you know, I'm a strong advocate in favour of buoyancy aids being at the choice of the individual once a certain level of proficiency has been attained. I fought long and hard to prevent buoyancy being a pre requisite for windsurfers in racing back in the day and we did get dispensation. I see no reason why proficient dinghy sailors should also be given that same dispensation should they ask for it and sign whatever disclaimers would be required from them. I can't see the difference between sailing high performance boats and foilers for instance and windsurfing and kiting equipment, neither of which feel buoyancy aids would be beneficial to the safety of the proponents.


Here, Dakine Matrix it's called

Edited by iGRF - 25 Oct 13 at 3:10pm
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