Kiteboard Impact Vests
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11167
Printed Date: 15 Jul 25 at 12:23am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Kiteboard Impact Vests
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Subject: Kiteboard Impact Vests
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 12:57pm
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Unless I make the effort to train them up for the season, my feeble, stalk-like arms often struggle to pull me up onto centreboards. Must exercise more. Or so I thought until one day I shocked myself by springing up onto the board with ease at a time when I wasn't very fit. Upon returning to the changing room at the end of the day, I found my "slimline" buoyancy aid hanging on the hook... Since then, I've noticed that the b.a. tends to get hooked on the edge of the board, killing my upward momentum (I'm sure we'd all agree that getting up there is a dynamic matter, as much as a slow test of strength). So I looked at the macho-looking Gill Compressor Vest http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Catalogue~Gill_Compressor_Vest_Buoyancy_Aid_2012~p_DG-4914-2012~c4693.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.sailboats.co.uk/Catalogue~Gill_Compressor_Vest_Buoyancy_Aid_2012~p_DG-4914-2012~c4693.html But I'm not convinced that it would make such a difference as I'd like. Now I discover kiteboard impact vests such as http://www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/impact-and-floatation/product.php?pid=1529" rel="nofollow - http://www.mysticboarding.com/products/men/impact-and-floatation/product.php?pid=1529 These seem much slimmer. OK, they aren't 50N, but combined with a wet-suit, how much buoyancy do you really need? - I'd suggest very little. After all, skiff sailors avoid using b.a.'s at all, while in my incident related above, I absolutely did not notice the lack of a b.a. as I made my way round the boat in the water to the board. Any experiences? I'm awfully afraid this might be one for Grumph... ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Replies:
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 1:40pm
| How about wearing a rash vest over the top? |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 1:53pm
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Would a rash vest properly smooth out the lumpy edge of the b.a.? I suspect it would just 'give' to allow the b.a. foam to engage the edge of the board. Plus, I like to keep the shoulder straps available to rescue crews in case they ever need to haul me out unconscious! ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:02pm
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This isn't meant to sound flippant (but no doubt will), but how often are you capsizing? Is there something there that could be fixed, rather than changing your kit to make recovery easier?
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:29pm
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Not that often, but that means when it does it is more unexpected so, e.g. I'm not thinking about getting my leg over the side as soon as a novice might. Capsizes happen , and when they happen to me these days they are typically in horrendous weather when more might be expected, and the last thing I want its to be out there wondering how many more board-leaps my arms have got in them. OK, on the Medway there's always the welcoming mud of the shore to rest up on, but that's bad for my self-esteem! From talking to others, it would appear that b.a.'s are an encumbrance even if it's not immediately evident as in my case. But for the b.a.-less recovery, I'd never have realised. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:29pm
Fundamental reason why I use one. They enable you to swim real fast if you have to catch up with an errant boat with crew dangling over the side with the mainsheet wrapped around his leg.. They allow you to spring back onto the centreboard and back over the side of the boat with no problem. They save you from breaking your rib completely when you temporarily use a rival helm to do a distance race and he decides to step into the boat to untangle the spinnaker from the lee side and you hit the zimmer thing in the middle of the boat. They also make diving down under the boat to have a look inside to see if your crew is in there before you go looking for what he's gone and done with himself this time.. Finally they permit you to continue to hang out with normal folk without looking like a rooster lederhosen, gill infested, yellow booted, beer towel butted, spotty nose running dinghy sailor.. In a saying, 'dignity before dignitas' and you can quote me ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Presuming Ed
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:39pm
If class rules/Y call for buoyancy aids, then: RRS 40 PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICES When flag Y is displayed with one sound before or with the warning signal, competitors shall wear personal flotation devices, except briefly while changing or adjusting clothing or personal equipment. Wet suits and dry suits are not personal flotation devices. RYA prescription 40 Personal Flotation Devices When a rule requires a personal flotation device to be worn, the device shall comply with the specifications for the personal flotation devices that the boat is required to carry. If more than one specification applies, the personal flotation device worn shall comply with the highest of them. Specs for buoyancy aids/life jackets are found in ISO 12402, with the lowest level being the 50N standard.
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:41pm
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More nanny bureaucrats. Which one do you use, Grumph? ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:42pm
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Clothing sure makes a difference. These days I only wear a sleeveless wetsuit because I find that the extra drag on my arms really takes it out of me. If its too cold for the long john I don't go sailing!
More buoyancy does have advantages as well as disadvantages for getting out of the water though. A few more inches out of the water really halps getting on that daggerboard |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:04pm
I use the Dakine Impact vest, I used to sell, I think that's what it's called, hell it's only been a year and I've forgotten it's name already, I've had it a number of years, Presuming Ed is right they don't have a lot of buoyancy they are designed to protect against impact, but as you rightly point out, combine it with a wetsuit or a dry suit even in the winter and you already have sufficient in my view for it to be dangerous. As you know, I'm a strong advocate in favour of buoyancy aids being at the choice of the individual once a certain level of proficiency has been attained. I fought long and hard to prevent buoyancy being a pre requisite for windsurfers in racing back in the day and we did get dispensation. I see no reason why proficient dinghy sailors should also be given that same dispensation should they ask for it and sign whatever disclaimers would be required from them. I can't see the difference between sailing high performance boats and foilers for instance and windsurfing and kiting equipment, neither of which feel buoyancy aids would be beneficial to the safety of the proponents. 
Here, Dakine Matrix it's called ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:12pm
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The major difference between a dinghy and a kiteboard, say, is the amount of clobber to get bashed on as it all goes wrong. Of course, you can turn this around and say that it is more stuff to get caught on and trapped, but I suspect being knocked on the head and then falling in in a woozy state is more common. I do agree that the thing about HAVING to wear BA's whatever the weather, even when the risk is smaller than that of heatstroke, and you are only a few yards from shore, is a pita. For most occasions, I'm fine with it. The impact vests I remember selling years ago were about 30N, and back in the mid 90's were considered by most windsurfers as something that only scardy cats would wear - real windsurfers wouldn't be seen dead in them. We didn't sell many - dinghy BA's must have out sold them 100 to 1. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:25pm
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Rupert, it' not scaredy cats, it's the simple fact the folk don't like being trapped under the sail which happens frequently and the only way out is down.
I also would point to dinghies with my irrational fear of ropes around my legs brought on from a childhood weed around legs near drowning incident and suggest more folk probably die from being caught up in stuff than other accidents and as for being hit on the head why no helmet rule, I won't go out without one when it's windy and I have quite literally lost count of the blows to my head and temple that have stunned me sailing these bloody death traps. Kites have lines that you can get caught up in with as disastrous consequences as any trapeze or shroud, possibly more so it they happen to engage with a finger or an ear and whip it clean off. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 4:22pm
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Thanks Grumph. I've nothing against helmets, and indeed always wear head protection, having finally tired of scalping myself. I bought one of these: https://www.cromwell.co.uk/KMF9575020B" rel="nofollow - https://www.cromwell.co.uk/KMF9575020B But when the fabric fell apart, I put the hard liner into my regular baseball cap (after a bit of re-shaping with a hot air gun to fit it closer round my head). I don't, hoever, think helmets should be mandatory. When it is open to question what is the safest approach, it should be left to the individual what they do (so long as they do something and aren't just being macho/lazy); our life belongs to us, not the state, notwithstanding how it may sometimes appear... ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: L123456
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 5:29pm
To an extent ... but if you get into problems it is others that are put at risk to come to your aid ...
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 6:23pm
But they don't get to choose the rules either. If they agree with my opinion but are forced to help when I'm entrapped or unable to get on the board to right the boat thanks to my b.a., they would also have reasons to complain. Like I said, in cases where it isn't clear which is the best option - or maybe better put: where the best option might vary from occasion to occasion... ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: rolo2
Date Posted: 28 Oct 13 at 4:43pm
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I have every sympathy and too much practice in getting to the board. Several years ago we managed over 20 capsizes in a single race of one disastrous Medway Regatta. To ease getting about the boat I now wear a shorty over everything (harness/BA). In addition to keeping the BA out of the way it is also a handy place to store a can or two and a Boost... |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 28 Oct 13 at 5:11pm
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I bought a gill compressor ba for jus tthis reason and it makes quite a difference.
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 28 Oct 13 at 6:04pm
That's interesting to know. I could see the Gill was a step in the right direction, but wondered if it was far enough. The kiteboard impact vests seemed to go to the logical conclusion. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 28 Oct 13 at 7:33pm
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I noticed significant difference between it and my usual BA which is a skiff style over the ehad thing. Put a rash top over it and I reckon you'd be much better off.
------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 28 Oct 13 at 9:51pm
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The Yoof and I always now sail with a sleeveless Rooster lycra thingy over the top of everything. I couldn't forgive myself if something happened to him and we/I hadn't taken all sensible precautions.
We don't wear specialist head protection (other than that afforded by wooly hats/caps) as we don't tend to hit our heads on anything (I know... it could only take the one time...), but my theory is that we've both grown up in boats since quite early childhood, and just don't have it as an issue. ------------- |