Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
My unbiased ALTO review |
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Bootscooter ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 11 Apr 13 at 9:13pm |
Ok, so where to start with this unbiased review of the Alto? I suppose by declaring a slight bias, in that I have always liked the look of it – not just the physical, but the concept of the boat. Since it appeared a few years ago, I’ve wanted to have a go, to see if it lived up to it’s stated aim of providing a modern, up-to-date design that provided fast, affordable performance without the need for a full-on racing snake physique.
Much has been made of the Alto’s 505 derived heritage but other than dimensionally, there aren’t any obvious reminders of this. In my opinion the 5oh is the most beautiful dinghy hull shape ever penned, so from that viewpoint the lack of the long curved foredeck and sexy wide, flared gunwales is a disappointment, but this is made up for somewhat by lines and chines that look bang up to date. It is a large boat and appears larger in the flesh (especially when parked next to my OK) than it did when I saw it at the Dinghy Show, but for all it’s size, a hull weight of 82 Kg makes it easily manoeuvrable around the dinghy park. Rigging the boat is a simple affair with no surprises. The current jib has forestay clips up it’s luff which are simple and easy to use. A zipped luff version is being looked into, I believe, but while this may have a positive performance impact I do feel that for sailors in the real world of Club/Open racing the ability to merely drop/ flake the jib and tie securely with a line whilst having lunch is of more practical use. The mainsail goes easily up the carbon mast via a 2:1 halyard and all the tails stash neatly away in a pocket of the fabric foredeck. That foredeck is a fantastic feature which allows simple access to all the bits that have the ability to go wrong on an asymmetric-kite boat both on and off the water, and makes the initial halyard routing on stepping the mast a doddle. The Alto launches without drama off it’s purpose built gunwale-hung trolley and sits quite stably on the water, even in stronger winds and climbing aboard requires no feats of acrobatics. Both the foils are hauled down smoothly and certainly have a feeling of quality, inspiring confidence. Those last two words are massively important, as it’s a theme that seems to run through the whole boat. Once you sheet in the boat accelerates very quickly – not in a nervous, jittery way, but with a smooth feeling of controllable power. The only thing I can liken it to is the speed and handling of a big Jaguar or Aston Martin Coupe, as opposed to a Lotus Elise, for example. Similar speeds, but a very different feeling.... Whoosh! Upwind it’s fast – deceptively so! That static stability I mentioned earlier gets even greater when you’re under way so that when a gust hits there isn’t a panic to maintain control, there’s a slow roll that gives the crew time to adjust positioning and sails to make the most of the opportunity. I’ve not taken the crew position on the boat yet (I’m useless up the pointed end!) but Cameron had no problem getting out and back in from the wire. The side-decks and gunwale are covered in ProGrip (or similar) and provide a secure area to plant your feet. In sub-planing conditions it’s easy to get forward to avoid dragging the stern, but as the wind increases you can feel the boat just wanting to get on the plane and fly. In a breeze we’ve tended to knock off a few degrees of pointing to raise the speed and this seems to be pretty effective in a fast handicap fleet. With the particular boat we’ve borrowed there have been a couple of issues with the self-tacking jib – the sheet is led forward through a “guide” block attached by shock-cord, then through a double-block at the bow that is also used by the kite system, before being led aft under the foredeck. This set up was experimental, and we had an issue with the double-block being pulled in different directions, eventually jamming the sheet. As I said, this was an experimental setup that hadn’t been tested, but we made adjustments to the shock-corded guide block and this has alleviated the problem. The other solution is two single blocks at the bow. Separate rig and jib-luff tension is controlled by the by the helm, by way of cleats on the starboard/aft of the the centreboard case. This works well and is easily adjusted, even on the move. Cunningham and Kicker (Gnav) controls are led to the port/aft of the case. Maybe it just me, but these controls didn’t have a lot of feel to them, and as you’ll see on the video, I don’t think I’ve been using enough kicker. I’m going to ProLube the boom gnav slider and track for the next sail, and this may well fix that feeling. Again, it may be just me, but I felt a little unsure about having these controls effectively on the centreline as the time when I want to use them is when we’re overpowered, ie hiking hard from the sidedeck. Tim from the Class has sent me pictures of one of the boats they’ve sold that was spec’ed with dual kicker controls – a tidy job it was too, and one that I’d definitely want. The kite system works well, with a single line hoisting and deploying the pole. The chute mouth is a good size, allowing hoists and drops from both tacks without jamming. Downwind with the kite up the speed is amazing in a good breeze. The bow loves to lift, and in flat water the spray hitting you is not excessive. The overriding feelings are of speed, control and confidence (there’s that word again). Our second sail in the boat was in honking wind, 4s gusting 5s maybe, and I never once felt that we were going to go for a swim, not even when gybing! She just sits there, firing along, under control and ready to respond to sail and steering inputs. In lighter wind (and when we’ve got our angles wrong) we used the wingwang to great advantage. As you’d expect, the loads on the pole-lines are pretty big so it takes good timing and teamwork to ease the kite and cant the stick to windward at the same time, but once done dead-running is perfectly achievable. Whilst not a big player for us at Farmoor, I could see this would be of huge benefit when cheating the tide or flow close to shore on the sea or river. It works, and really well, but you mustn’t forget to straighten the pole before dropping the kite of course. There are some other minor niggles, most of which you’d sort out for yourself as an owner. The moulding on the top of the centreboard case has a lip extending laterally alongside where the helm sits, and it could be useful as a toehold for a bit of hiking – not a bad thing in itself, but the toestrap sits very close to this and is one of the reasons (along with age, fitness and laziness) why I can be seen on the video not hiking quite as far out as I should. My biggest problem with the design is the amount of water that you ship in if you “over-roll” in a tack. Perhaps I’m just used to boats with more freeboard, and I’m sure you’d adapt your technique in time, but it’s a huge amount of water for a mistake, that wasn’t actually that close to a capsize! Despite being fitted with a pair of good sized self-bailers (and transom flaps) it takes the length of a hefty beat to clear as well. Again, maybe I’ve just got used to self-draining cockpits... So how would I summarise the Alto experience? After the first couple of sails I was concerned that it was all too easy. The stability, control and confidence you get in the boat made it feel that there was little challenge in sailing the thing, but on reflection I realised that this was a positive. I’ve owned a string of hard-to-sail boats and enjoyed them, but never reached my potential as training, practice and fitness time was lacking in my life. This boat allows you to go fast and have fun, but also gives you the chance to concentrate on actually racing as opposed to merely surviving. We’ve been racing in the Fast Handicap fleet so far, that sails round-the-cans courses, and starts 3 minutes after the Asymmetrics that sail windward/Leeward (but using the same windward mark). In certain conditions we’ve made massive inroads in to that “head start” against some lower PY’d classes – I’m looking forward to starting with them on their course in the next couple of weeks! Value wise, it seems tremendous.... a boat that can not only be used, but properly raced and competitive in all conditions up to F6 (or more, dependant on ability of course) for £9500ish including Combi and cover I think, is hard to beat. My son knows little about 505’s so can’t use it to compare,so likens it to a “properly grown up Laser 3000 on steroids” and I don’t think he’s far off the money with that. There aren’t that many current, single trapeze, spinnaker boats out there on the market and this is a great boat that could and should fill that gap. It’s only marketplace problem is that it’s not up against like-for-like boats for sales, but others such as the RS800 which also have plenty of second handers up for grabs. Which would I have? The one that’ll allow me to sail, race and be competitive all year round, and won’t threaten to tip me out/break my body/be frustrating on a Wednesday evening light wind race. I’ll be honest – I’m beginning to love the Alto. There, I’ve said it. Would I buy one? If I had that amount of money to spend then the answer then the answer is an emphatic yes. Link to my Alto video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64OwQPoAV20 Thanks for reading (if you got this far!) ![]() Edited by Bootscooter - 13 Apr 13 at 11:04pm |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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What are you going to be competitive against? The Alto is neither a conventional symmetric kite boat, nor a proper asy. Even without the latest round of munging, your PY will never be right, on days when the swinging pole is a real bonus you will do well, other days your PY will be against you. You imply that you don't have the cash to buy one, what's the point of enthusing about it then? If you ain't in the market, the fact that it seems to suit you is kind of irrelevant at best, at worst it implies that it's a £10k boat for £3k sailors. (I don't mean to insult you as a £3k sailor, it's what my boat's insured for, it seems a fair budget for club racing to me!). A boat like that needs a fleet, it needs marketing to groups of people who can afford it, get a bunch of them in one club, like the D-ones have done at Lymington. That will tell you about its qualities as a boat to race. I know they've done that with the Atlo somewhere on the muddy side of the country... |
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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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Blimey who's a bit negative today!
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Bootscooter ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
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Well one point at a time...
Oxford, like most Clubs I know of, have very little "fleet" racing. They have Lasers, perhaps A.N.Other class fleet, and the rest is handicapped. If I bought a B14 I'd have no other to race against. Same for 29er, 505, 420,470. There's 1 RS300, 2/3 Contenders, 2/3 RS400s, but they're all in the FHcap fleet. So what does it matter so long as I enjoy the boat? Sunday we got a 3rd and a 1st against Contender, RS400, Phantom RS600 and others. That's what I'm talking about. Incidentally, Sunday was the day we put the cameras on the boat, filming during the races for the video.... so hardly the light wind wingwanging weather that you say we need to compete on handicap. Why not enthuse about something you've tried and found to be really rather good? The Alto gets a lot of "airtime" on here with a lot of comments from people who've never sailed it, so after some questions in other threads I thought I'd put up my honest thoughts, both good and bad. My reasons for arranging some time with the boat were twofold; 1. To see for myself if the reality held with the concept 2. To evaluate and pass on thoughts to RAFSA, as I figured there was a possibility that the design may fit some of the organisation's needs. So £10K or £3K, that's my reasoning. You're right, it does need a fleet, but they don't appear overnight - perhaps other OSC members may be interested, having actually seen it race (don't forget most of these people never fleet race, but still go and buy a new boat every few years. The fact that there is now a demo boat about shows that there is now some marketing going on. Again, I've got no axe to grind, no need to sell this as I've not even got a boat, or the necessary funds right now, but there's interest in the Alto, and perhaps a balanced review on here is helpful to people considering buying a similar type of boat. After all, that's what's in the magazine, right? Edited by Bootscooter - 11 Apr 13 at 10:58pm |
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ex laser ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 25 Mar 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 725 |
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good balanced review. (shame most of the ones in y&y these days are not as good)
when you find any boat fun, it great to share that joy and information. i always thought that was one of the things this forum was for. Edited by ex laser - 11 Apr 13 at 11:51pm |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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The 2 or 3 RS400's know how they did against each other on their own merits.
Your result is fairly meaningless, it would tell us more if you told us what PY you were sailing off. A fast boat is a nice thing to have, a boat that does well on PY is a secondary thing, as the PY will change over time, if it actually had a PY that is. Speed will sell, spreadsheet results won't. If you told me you were x% faster around the course, than say a 400, that would tell me something, although of course, 400 sailors vary and we don't have a trapeze. If I was in the market for a running, single trap longish boat, I'd either get a 505 or an Osprey or whatever people raced locally. Maybe a fireball, anywhere except the Solent. But in the 21st century, if your talking trapeze boats, and don't have the luggage of an existing class, what on earth is the point of the heavy person sitting on the side? That bloke Eelstorm knew a few things, helming his 505 from the wire.... |
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Bootscooter ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
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Well the heavy person was sat on the side (in this case) because he's a rubbish crew, and the lighter person is enjoys crewing!
We are using a PY of 925, which is what is advised by the Class, for alternative numbers, GRF has had a few different ones. Open events have given a variety from what I've seen, some more generous and others harsher. Elapsed and corrected times are recorded on the results section of the OSC website. I e just been and had a look, and in the afternoon race that we won, when it was breezier, in a race lasting just over an hour, we were 7 mins ahead of the Contender and RS600 and 14 mins ahead of the Phantom. In the morning race we were way back as we filled the boat up during a (very) poor tack after the first leeward mark. You prefered choices of running trapeze boats are all great boats, but as I've already inferred at our club, regular active boats include; Fireball-1, 505-0, Osprey-0, so why not an Alto? Admittedly £9.5 would buy a very good second hand example of any of those classes, but is still (I would guess) around half the price of a new one. Edited by Bootscooter - 12 Apr 13 at 1:31am |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Brand new Furball from £9850
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Bootscooter ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 May 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1094 |
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With the carbon stick, covers, combi trailer etc? If so, that's also very good value.
I don't know why you appear to be so upset about my review? I'm not trying to sell them (I think I've already explained that I've no vested interest at all) I just figured that some on here may be interested In how I got on with it... Thanks Ex Laser Edited by Bootscooter - 12 Apr 13 at 1:20am |
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Do Different ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Jan 12 Location: North Online Status: Offline Posts: 1312 |
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"when you find any boat fun, it great to share that joy and information.
i always thought that was one of the things this forum was for." ![]() Of course it could be said the race results mean little but the reality is that is the case for all PY racing. As much as the big swing pole will skew some results, wind and tide will do the same for all other classes, 420s in blow, British Moths in a drifter, etc. Will I be buying one? No, however in the year the Alto was launched I did buy and fit out a new hull of a class that I enjoy, my fleet racing is limited to travellers and I accept the home handicap racing for what it is. I hope and expect the Alto will attract sailors of a similar mindset.
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