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Measurement cert and handicap racing.

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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Measurement cert and handicap racing.
    Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 8:01pm
After reading through most of the advertising with sail numbers thread it has made me ponder the question....
Do I have to have a valid measurement certificate to do handicap racing?

The main argument that seems to have developed is about sails that don't measure, its just as easy to have a hull that's not quite class legal.

In terms of class racing no certificate means no racing when its not an SMOD in general.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 8:10pm
1.3 All boats will be required to sail according to their respective class rules
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 8:14pm
So if class rules includes having a valid measurement certificate......

I've never seen a club or event other than class events asking to see measurement certificates......I would imagine very few people either would bother or actually have a certificate.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 8:15pm
Although that's an extract from just one NoR.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 9:17pm
RRS 78 is the relevant bit of the rules. There are people who have a (to me bizarre) theory that it switches off in a handicap race.

Its not something that's going to be settled in a forum flaming match, it needs to go officially to the RYA rules folk, but I think its a can of worms no-one fancies opening just in case something ugly crawls out.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote robin34024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 9:53pm
'I've never seen a club or event other than class events asking to see measurement certificates'


Isn't this like the insurance thing, where if the club ask to see the certificate, the blame is on them, whereas asking the sailor to confirm that they have a certificate by signing the entry form is keeping the blame with the sailor themselves if something is wrong with the boat? I think it stops the club from being held accountable in measurement protests in classes with certificates.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 13 at 10:22pm
There are classes where the certificate is only valid if the owner is a member of the class association.
 
Has anyone ever been protested for not being a member of the CA?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 13 at 8:22am
Originally posted by JimC

RRS 78 is the relevant bit of the rules. There are people who have a (to me bizarre) theory that it switches off in a handicap race.

Its not something that's going to be settled in a forum flaming match, it needs to go officially to the RYA rules folk, but I think its a can of worms no-one fancies opening just in case something ugly crawls out.
 
I was only thinking there are certain parallels here with the current 'Horse meat' scandal...
Not what it says it is, on the tin!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 13 at 10:19am
"1.3 All boats will be required to sail according to their respective class rules"
 
There must be some things that dont tranfer from class rules to handicap. In my class events pumping is allowed at 10knts, but I think it would be unfair if I did this in handicap.
 
This line of thought makes it difficult for an event organiser to pick out what is to be followed from the class rules such as; hull and sail construction, and what is not.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 13 at 10:56am
Originally posted by E.J.

"1.3 All boats will be required to sail according to their respective class rules"
 
There must be some things that dont tranfer from class rules to handicap. In my class events pumping is allowed at 10knts, but I think it would be unfair if I did this in handicap.
 
This line of thought makes it difficult for an event organiser to pick out what is to be followed from the class rules such as; hull and sail construction, and what is not.

I think they dealt with the propulsion issue?

But there are other issues, for instance the RS200 has the option of a pole to square-run with the kite, it is described in the class rules and its length limited but banned in class events. In an RS800, the crew may not play the mainsheet upwind in class events, suddenly you have to unscramble class rules from SI's for class events.

I would say the majority of PY sailors nationally are not compliant with class rules, because they are not members of their CA. That may seem like a bad thing, but the system works. The fact that a lot of club racers who want minimal involvement in the class are not dominating the voting means that those who are involved can get on and run the high level stuff to suit the high level sailors. Maybe some classes don't have the balance right, but on the whole, the current state of affairs works ok on the water and it's only forum lawyers who have an issue with it.

For most people, the point of sticking to class rules in PY racing is to get a PY easily, with some credibility behind it. That has been damaged by the esteemed PY committee erasing the numbers for a great number of classes and too much mucking about with the other numbers.
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