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iGRF View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 Mar 11
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nick Craig
    Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by winging it

well according to grumpf he's a mummy's boy who won't be allowed to sail anyway.


Missed the point there wing wang if they sail they probably aint mummies boys, but generally mass population of which 99.999% recurring don't actually sail, typically sailors emanate from the private sector which is a little less liberal in their schooling.. (I.e. they make them do competitive sport).

Even kitesurfers, are soft, with the advent of the Bow kite (A kite with big depower which is viewed to be super safe, it aint but the sport is marketed that way) lots of pasty soft palmed city boys took up the sport, why only the other day on the kite forum (yes I go on there as well, slightly different character mind) I caught them talking about shampooing their wetsuit and aghast at the thought of peeing in it..

What can I say? Case proven.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 12:53pm
iGRF,

When you are 1m93 and 115kg (as I was when sailing competitively) all dinghy classes are for small people!

So to answer your question - the Laser, the 470, the Finn, the Fireball, all of the RS boats....
Gordon
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Aug 04
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 1:24pm

Big and small are very subjective, aren't they? For me, a Laser is for big people, for Gordon, for small people.

In reality, the Laser has been such a success partly because it is pretty much right in the middle of averagely fit average body weight.
 
2 handed boats are a rather different story to singlehanders. By finding a 2nd person who is the right size, options open up for more body sizes. The 505 and the FD cater for some pretty large sailors, and I'm sure that there are more modern boats that do, too.
 
Lets face it, though, if the market was there for a singlehander to carry more weight than a Finn, then why isn't it out there, and popular? The Megabyte is a sideshow, the Phantom only big in the UK. And neither would cater for the truly huge, no more than the Finn. Which comes first, the boat, or the demand?
 
What would a boat for, say, 110kg plus people have to be? 16 feet Long, pretty wide, plenty of hull volume, 12 or 13 sqM of sail? Not too tippy, or that much weight getting caught in the wrong place will surely cause a swim? The only boats I can think of which come close are the OJolle and the singlehanded scow (MC?) in America.
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iitick View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Sep 13
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 1:29pm
Thank you Greaeme, is that how you spell it? for rejoicing in my partial recovery. I hope I will feel ok for my Racehorse riding lesson this evening and the following pub.

Before my life 'hung by a thread' or Sunday I took an enterprising young (36) sailor to Fleetwood (Lancashire) don't go there, where we bought a very nice Byte C2 for £1250......I keep telling you!

I thought thr V twin may form the basis of a Stephen Klishko heavyweight dinghy?

I am going to start a new post.
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by gordon

I agree - sailing has become a strange  sport in that nobody, except an elite group, train.

When I sailed keelboats in France we only sailed 4 or 5 regattas per year. The rest of the time a small group of boats we went out with a coach and trained. Hard work, physically and mentally but after 50 tacks and 20 spinnaker hoist/gybe/takedown under the critical eye of a coach we felt we had improved. The first beer tasted fantastic!

Club racing does not, in general, improve your skills.

Perhaps the Musto fleet at Datchet has a different approach then.  We have 15 boats there, but you wouldn't know it to look at the race results as you probably have to look hard to find half that number.  That's not to say we don't sail, but we have all seemed to make much better progress by just going sailing with each; impromtpu starting practice, tacking duels, close quarters gybing etc.  I don't really miss club racing that much to be honest, having too much fun 'training'.
Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 10:20pm
Interesting point about talented sailors who do not go the Olympic route, Mathew Syed in excellent book "bounce" would have you think that there is no such thing as natural talent, what is required for top level performance is 10,000 hours of directed training.  The more I consider this the more I think he is right, and I suspect that Sir Ben meets this criteria.  

Syed also talks of lumping groups of tasks in to one, which an expert can recognise and react to, such as tennis players anticipating a shot by the initial leg movements of the server, I wonder if BA's inspired reading of wind pressure at SF is the same process.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 2:35am
You think that 10000 hours will make you an Olympic champion?
Of course not, it is just a prerequisite alongside the other necessities.
Plenty people have done 10k hours and are still average. Just well practiced / burned out and average.
Many do the 10k hours over 3 or 4 years in order to discover they haven't got it.

The other point is valid though and can be lumped under "talent" but could that particular skill/technique could be taught.
Sailing being the sport with the most variables has plenty of avenues like that for the sailor with a bit of panache.
I'm of the opinion that there is a fair bit in sailing, esp the more nuanced stuff like going downwind in a classic singlehander, that can't be taught.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 2:39am
If I did 10000 hours of football do you think I'd be Lionel Messi? F@ck no!
If I did 10000 of hours of tennis with top level coaching I'd still be sh*t at tennis.
I'd like to think that despite this I might still have more charisma than Andy Murray mind.
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iitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 3:01am
You need to be born with a certain talent in order to be arsed tp practice for 10,000 hours.
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gordon View Drop Down
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Posts: 1037 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 7:15am
For talent read high tolerance of boring repetetive training sessions and (very often) parents prepared to spend time and money pushing their offspring (often to the limits of child abuse).

Which should not detract from our admiration of those who succeed.

The 10,000 hours theory refers to 10,000 hours of focussed work, not repeatedly strumming the same guitar chords or sailing the same course against the same boats.....

I worked with one coach who had an interesting idea - people learn fastest when they begin an activity, the learning curve then flattens off and may become horizontal, or start going down. His idea was to try and identify when a sailor/crew reached the flattening out phase, and then offer them a new challenge that puts them back as beginners.

This can be quite simple - having mastered a manoeuvre in force 3 then do it in a force 5. It can also mean changing fleet to sail against better opposition, doing the same excercise in a restricted space....

What we found is that everyone benefits but that each crew arrived at a level at which they seemed satisfied and did not want to move up to the next level.
Gordon
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