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FreshScum View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 1:58pm

470s last way longer than a year at a highly competitive level. Nick and Joe considered using the same boat in China as they did in Athens(don't know whether they did).

Nic and Elliot used the same boat to win the worlds 2 years apart. Nick and Joe, and Nathan and Mal also used the same boats at both events.

The whole, 'they go soft' rubbish is just that. Rubbish. They may have another boat to train with, but most Olympic programs require more than one boat anyway because of travel to events, so no cost difference because of that.
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Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Well there are lies, damned lies and statistics.  The cost of a championship winning campaign, whilst interesting, is only part of the story.  The barriers to Tornado racing are high - what is the cheapest you can pick up a secondhand T (with the new rig)?  Compare that to a mid-life 470. 

Yes, the costs to enter the T class is a little more; but you can buy a boat for around 13K GBP and you COULD take that to the next games ( );

470 will be about 1/2 the price and you will throw it away 12 months later. 

 

Games are roughtly 3 years time so you'll pay 50% for for the duration of the campaign; I assume the value of 470's drops quickly as they become uncompetitive; the Tornado does not.

 

Totally agree that you have to spend more INITIALLY to get into the T class, but resale values are better. 

Headline, initial cost is greater, cost-of-ownership is less. 

I always make my buying decisions on cost-of-ownership as IMO it is the only sensible way to do it.

Personally I am a great supporter of cats at the Games, and I think making the Tornado a SMOD is a mistake, or at least a great pity.  And I take your point about through-life cost of ownership.  But, realistically, the initial purchase price is so high only Olypic wannabes are going to get one.  And, because they are a quality product, even resale values are high.  That means that club hot shots, young hopefuls etc can not easily buy into the class.  In comparison a second hand 470 can be picked up fairly cheaply.  Okay, they aren't popular in the UK, but globally the 470 is a popular boat, partly because cost of entry into the class is comparitively low. 

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Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Based on a person who has campaigned both (470 World Champion 1995, 2002 and Tornado European Champion 2007, 2008): Kostas Trigonis

Kostas Trigonis didn't win the 470 Worlds in 2002. If memory serves me right, that was the year Simon Cooke (NZL) won them in Sardinia.  Trigonis won them crewing for Andreas Kosmatopolous (sp?) in 1995, but that was 13 years ago and 470 longevity has improved greatly since then.

Nick and Joe have done 3 olympic cycles now and they haven't had 16 boats, I'm fairly sure. As far as I know, it would be about half that.
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Posts: 988 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 2:32pm
http://www.isaf.org/regattainfo.php?rgtaid=1024&evntid=4 832&nocache=1#results

http://www.isaf.org/regattainfo.php?rgtaid=4738&evntid=1 08&nocache=1#results
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Posts: 988 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 2:38pm
http://www.isaf.org/regattainfo.php?rgtaid=8812&evntid=1 7043&nocache=1#results

http://www.isaf.org/regattainfo.php?rgtaid=10119&evntid= 19148&nocache=1#results
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Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 2:40pm

Originally posted by Jon Emmett

http://www.isaf.org/regattainfo.php?rgtaid=1024&evntid=4 832&nocache=1#results

http://www.isaf.org/regattainfo.php?rgtaid=4738&evntid=1 08&nocache=1#results

The links confirm Kosmatopoulos (and Trigonis) were world champions in 1995, but runners-up in 2002.
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Posts: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 2:50pm
470s have surely got to be cheaper to campaign, and a 4 boat campaign, well thats personal preference, if you run the same costs on a per-boat basis, this is much clearer!

i think the more money you have the more the more you can spend justifiably, but the same result could've been achieved with 2 boats.
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Posts: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 2:53pm
any news from the isaf conference today relating to OCs?
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 3:03pm
This time tomorrow we will know if the XX is in ...
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Posts: 2415 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Chew my RS

Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by Chew my RS

Well there are lies, damned lies and statistics.  The cost of a championship winning campaign, whilst interesting, is only part of the story.  The barriers to Tornado racing are high - what is the cheapest you can pick up a secondhand T (with the new rig)?  Compare that to a mid-life 470. 

Yes, the costs to enter the T class is a little more; but you can buy a boat for around 13K GBP and you COULD take that to the next games ( );

470 will be about 1/2 the price and you will throw it away 12 months later. 

 

Games are roughtly 3 years time so you'll pay 50% for for the duration of the campaign; I assume the value of 470's drops quickly as they become uncompetitive; the Tornado does not.

 

Totally agree that you have to spend more INITIALLY to get into the T class, but resale values are better. 

Headline, initial cost is greater, cost-of-ownership is less. 

I always make my buying decisions on cost-of-ownership as IMO it is the only sensible way to do it.

Personally I am a great supporter of cats at the Games, and I think making the Tornado a SMOD is a mistake, or at least a great pity.  And I take your point about through-life cost of ownership.  But, realistically, the initial purchase price is so high only Olypic wannabes are going to get one.  And, because they are a quality product, even resale values are high.  That means that club hot shots, young hopefuls etc can not easily buy into the class.  In comparison a second hand 470 can be picked up fairly cheaply.  Okay, they aren't popular in the UK, but globally the 470 is a popular boat, partly because cost of entry into the class is comparitively low. 

 

Lots of people outside the olympic cucle sail the T; we have one couple at our club sho have just upgraded their Tornado.

Any "olympic mannabe" is going to need to campaign the boat around the EU (for UK based) at minumum and so the start up cost is small in comparison.

 

 
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