Harness Haze

The only problem with having all the bouyancy on the back is that if you are unconciuos, then you are guaranteed to float face down, increasing the chance of drowning.

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Mike278 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 09 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 256	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike278 Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Harness Haze Posted: 05 Apr 05 at 8:28am
	The only problem with having all the bouyancy on the back is that if you are unconciuos, then you are guaranteed to float face down, increasing the chance of drowning.
	Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 05 Apr 05 at 12:46am
	Danny, a quick release hook is no good - its not the hook that gets caught and if it is, its instinctive to clear it - its the buckles that get snagged. As for the bouyancy aid, the modern ones are only half in the water since they are so high on the body and they also tend to slide up. Swimming, how much are you going to do when trying to right a boat? No you need a bouyancy which is lower on the body and doesn't slide up and it must also not be on the chest so that it doesn't interfere with climbing up onto the cetreboard or over the gunwhale. The only place I can think of is on one's back.

Spot192 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 28 Nov 04 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 833	Post Options Post Reply Quote Spot192 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Apr 05 at 4:20pm
	i´m sailing without bouyancy for over 1 1/2 years now. i nearly died because of the bouyancy cause i couldn´t dive when a 29er fell on me. so i don´t think an in the harness integrated one iisn´t so good. but i have no problem with the design of my harness. i´ve bought an english one 3 years ago and it´s great. most of the people who died during sailing on our lake was because of ropes rapped around their legs, bodies..

DannySimpson Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Newbie Joined: 18 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote DannySimpson Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Apr 05 at 12:03pm
	A buoyancy aid like that could cause you some difficulty! if the foam was only on your back then when you were trying to swim back to your boat after capsize / falling out, it wouldn't be in the water and would weigh you down, not help keep you up. Also, rescue crews' like having something to grab on to and I reckon a buoyancy aid would be easier than a harness to lift someone out. If your new harness had a quick release hook, the buoyancy aid shouldn't interfere: maybe we should get onto a design for a harness with integral buoyancy, all-in-one?
	OmegaPiZeta

redback Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Tunbridge Wells Online Status: Offline Posts: 1502	Post Options Post Reply Quote redback Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 04 Apr 05 at 11:49am
	I've had a serious incident with a harness buckle getting snagged on a control line. The hook is no problem since it is instinctive to clear that. I now use a harness which has only one buckle. As for bouancy, I do have a problem with wearing the harness over the bouancy aid - the straps slip off my shoulders - so I wear it under the bouancy but that means there is no way I'm going to be able to get it off if I'm stuck. I find the modern bouancy aids a pain. They slip up and get in the way when you're in the water and they make it much harder to get up onto the centreboard. I have a feeling that the recommendations were devised by people who sail boats which hardly ever capsise. 50 Newtons is too much bouancy for a total emersion sport and the way I sail a Laser 4000 I have to treat it as total emersion! I'd like a bouancy aid that provided about an inch thick layer on my back only, it could go down below my kidneys and would be OK beneath my harness. It would probaly have less bouancy than 50N but I'd be so much more agile in the water it would be safer. I speak from experience.

49erGBR735HSC Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991	Post Options Post Reply Quote 49erGBR735HSC Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 02 Apr 05 at 10:29pm
	Just thinking about it, some trapeze harnesses carry enough bouancy to keep you afloat in the water but also make it easier to swim in the water. Some intrapment issues are down to a person being pushed up by the buoancy in their buoancy aid and being pulled down by someting within the boat. The two opposing forces hold the person in the same place hence them being trapped. Getting to the point, in some cases the buoancy aid is a negative factor and a trapeze harness option gives you more freedom. Certain trapeze harnesses give enough bouancy to hold you above the water, yet if your underneath, would allow you to swim downwards out of a trapped situation instead of forcing you up. Not having a bouancy aid over the top of a harness would also allow for a trapped person to release themselves from the harness if it was the hook of the harness caught on something. I know that with my trapeze harness, it keeps me afloat in the water and I prefer swimming with just it on. If I could, I wouldn't wear a bouancy aid, because I know that my trapeze harness would be enough to keep me safe but it seems not to be the done thing. Wouldn't it be an idea if harnesses were regulated in a certain way where appropriate models are highlighted as being suitable for use without a bouancy aid if desired?
	Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 Helensburgh S.C Boat Insurance from Noble Marine

hurricane Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1047	Post Options Post Reply Quote hurricane Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Apr 05 at 3:51pm
	i agree straps are worse than the hook

lozza Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 23 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 262	Post Options Post Reply Quote lozza Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Apr 05 at 8:43am
	Another consideration for improving harness design is to reduce the number of straps as i find these tend to get caught more times than the hook does. Anyone else find this to be the case?
	Life's a reach, then you gybe

Mike278 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 09 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 256	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mike278 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 01 Apr 05 at 1:20am
	The only time i have been trapped was because of a rope around my leg and had nothing to do with a harness. However, even though i carry a knife the first time you are trapped it can be enough of a shock to make you forget you have the knife.
	Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

iansmithofotley Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Far too distracted from work Joined: 16 Mar 04 Location: Otley, West Yorkshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 209	Post Options Post Reply Quote iansmithofotley Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 05 at 9:53pm
	Hi everyone, Wasn't there two cases, a couple of years ago, when people died. From memory I think that one was a male Tornado sailor in the Majorca Regatta and a female 4000 sailor at Queen Mary S.C. As far as I am aware, they were trapped by their harnesses and these two cases, plus others no doubt, were the reasons for an investigation into the use of harnesses and the changing of the racing rules. Ian (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)