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John Wilson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote John Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing rules
    Posted: 01 May 06 at 4:44pm

Hmm, very intersting. I've read through these posts & then the rules & it seems you've come up with some interesting stuff!

It seems it's windward/leeward (using "...When two boats on the same tack overlap, the one on the leeward side of the other is the leeward boat." [ISAF Def: Leeward & Windward]) unless they are heading directly towards each other when rule 14 applies?

I just also had a thought i'd throw in...
Surely if the boat that is running by the lee to go as far as heading straight towards a beating boat on the same tack is going to be surfing on waves? And surely then they are going to be doing transitions between broad reaching & running by the lee? Surely then this is changing course & they are going to have to give the beating boat room to keep clear (under rule 15), which must surely be a considerable time as they are going to have to tack? And so in the event of a collision the beating boat will argue this & take the protest?

Just a thought. (Sorry if it's a repeated point)

 

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 5:21pm

The course of a boat is defined by the direction in which it is sailing not by the point of sailing.

Gordon

 

 

Gordon
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John Wilson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote John Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 5:52pm
Originally posted by gordon

The course of a boat is defined by the direction in which it is sailing not by the point of sailing.

Gordon

Hu? I'm a little confused.

I don't really see your point. Is it because I talked about the boat moving between broad reaching & running by the lee? I used this example as it is common, it is difficult to explain any other way & to show that the boat would be varying its course. I didn't mean to make it sound that boats have differing rights based on the point of sail they are on (as I took from your statement).

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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 6:31pm

To be more precise in rule 16.1 a boat changes course when her compass heading changes not when she goes from a reach to run. A change of point of sailing can take place without the boat changing course - this is frequent on inland waters - I have seen boats go from a close reach on port to a close reach on starboard and then back wihtout changing course.

 

Gordon

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John Wilson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote John Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 6:52pm

Yeah, sorry for the confusion. I was only using the example as a matter of ease to avoid saying "when the boat's compass heading changes from 150 degrees to 200 degrees based on a wind averaging from 000". I'm not sure if this is even correct as I don't use a compass & seems a little long winded (if you will excuse the pun)! I just assumed everyone would know I intended a change of course, as it is the most common usage of the wording.

Although this possibly would have been clearer if I'd included the compass headings.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 6:58pm
do u not think u are being a little picky Gordon its easy to see what he meant.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote John Wilson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 7:29pm

Aye, well said.

Cheers Calum

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 7:54pm

Except that when on a protest committee I would base any judgement on what was said and not on what I may think someone may have intended to say. Surely the whole point of this thread has been to study precisely what the rules say.

A boat does not change it's course because it goes from having the wind on a broad reach to having the wind by the lee. It may do this without changing course, that is without changing the direction in which the boat is heading.

The language of the rules is very simple, very clear AND very precise. Our usage should be equally as simple, clear and precise.

Gordon
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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 8:22pm

John was talking about surfing on waves. Pretty obviously therefore, this would not be inland in light and fluky conditions. He is discussing the kind of radical and frequent course changes some boats and helms can use to advantage e.g. http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/downloads/?s=73&Article Number=5 and I think he was entirely "clear and precise".

Now Gordon, we are duly convinced that you are very knowledgable, but how about answering the questions being asked instead of whatever you feel like talking about?  

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gordon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 06 at 8:52pm

Steffan,

I think I did answer John's point by reminding him that, for the rules, a change of course is a change in the direction in which a boat is heading, not a change in the angle between the wind direction (real or apparent) and the axis of the boat. There are many situations in which this angle may change, surfing being one, fluky winds another, however this change does not constitute a change of course.

Gordon 

Gordon
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