New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: RYA Wokebomb
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

RYA Wokebomb

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 16>
Author
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RYA Wokebomb
    Posted: 30 Mar 21 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad



Sounds remarkably like a rationalisation to justify racism. It is entirely possible to have a group identity without being scared of other groups just because they are other......ah well.


It's entirely a rationalisation, not to justify, but to accept 'racism' as another term to describe human group interaction. A group identity doesn't necessarily have to be scared per se, but when they start to consider their superiority over others, then the probems start.

Catholics over Protestants, Sunni v Shia Muslims, West Ham suporters v Millwall, PYAG group v any group that isn't Laser..
Back to Top
NicolaJayne View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 01 Mar 19
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 109
Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 21 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by Chris_H


Yes, I have some views. Perhaps the irony regarding the tone of your post eludes you. Your post highlights the very reason why the RYA are doing what they are doing. 


 exactly, although it seems some people want their particular  sport /. hobby/ pastime to remain solely for 'people like them ' ( Pale , Male, Stale )  

first  two of those characteristics they can;t do much about , but  the staleness is  100 % a choice 
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 21 at 8:35pm
In some agreement with iGRF on this.
Understanding something is nothing like justifying something but it is a step towards countering.
Back to Top
NicolaJayne View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 01 Mar 19
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 109
Post Options Post Options   Quote NicolaJayne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 21 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

 


Yes. 

The main obstacle in overcoming this problem is that most sailors don't or won't understand the notion that other peoples perceptions are totally different to theirs. They don't understand why anyone would have a different perspective.

Several years ago I asked my wife "why aren't there more women in politics?" she replied "because we have better and more important things to do". Needless to say I now understand her perspective a little better.


exactly !
Back to Top
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 5:47am
All I'm saying is tribalism or group identity to sound more cuddly has a corrosive side. 

Little or much we see it here quite often. There was a bloke who always signed off something like "the only real racing is Merlins or Solos" how often do we see "Losers" for Lasers? "PY racing is for noddy classes"

I've experienced it at my club where a quite classic racing class is popular, I sail a class of very similar spec but with much smaller numbers, "Ah, when you get a proper boat". I like what I like and simply get on but interestingly they are still very happy for me to OOD / RO when we host their travellers.  
Back to Top
Sussex Lad View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jun 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 9:30am
Originally posted by iGRF

Originally posted by Sussex Lad



Sounds remarkably like a rationalisation to justify racism. It is entirely possible to have a group identity without being scared of other groups just because they are other......ah well.


It's entirely a rationalisation, not to justify, but to accept 'racism' as another term to describe human group interaction. A group identity doesn't necessarily have to be scared per se, but when they start to consider their superiority over others, then the probems start.

Catholics over Protestants, Sunni v Shia Muslims, West Ham suporters v Millwall, PYAG group v any group that isn't Laser..


I was using the word rationalisation in it's true sense.

If I can give my brief and potted take on prejudice, I have a bit of time:

Humans have the ability to learn dogma. It's a mostly useful ability and is sometimes called rote learning.  A good example would be the times tables which we can quote without thinking and with absolute certainty, learnt from repetition and reinforced with encouragement from teachers. Another form of rote learning would be "don't cross the road without looking and listening", it gets repeated endlessly when we are kids until it finally sticks and becomes an automatic response. In this last example we have learned to pre judge roads as dangerous places, we have applied prejudice and possibly saved our lives.

These are constructive examples of how humans save time in  critical situations, how to make split second decisions with instant automatic responses.

All very useful and it serves the human race well in most instances. The problem arises when we are fed dogma that isn't useful and we then apply prejudice destructively.

This is learnt behaviour and therefore can be unlearnt given a bit of thought and willingness.

Here's the bit that can F**k the willingness to unlearn up:

Humans also have a need to "belong".  We are much better able to survive and thrive in a group. Evolution has imposed this need.  Groups are likely to have more skills than an individual.

There is a need for harmony in these groups otherwise they can become dangerous (ones own sensitivity to fear may make us more or less social)  Humans have developed a whole range of unspoken rules and abilities to get along, one of these abilities can be called Confluence (in some circles), it's mostly an unconscious response, the need to go with the flow, we will adopt common attitudes and behaviour in order to maintain harmony. Better still we will seek out groups that have attitudes that mirror our own. We will be inclined to defend the group also. Whether these attitudes are constructive or destructive is up for debate? Most of this stuff goes on beneath the radar, is unconscious and can be called institutionalised.

In brief:
Pre judging is mostly constructive but quite often isn't. It's learned and can be unlearnt.
The very powerful human need to belong may bugger up and override the desire to un-learn.
There's loads of stuff missing above.
woke?  Wink





Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by NicolaJayne


 exactly, although it seems some people want their particular  sport /. hobby/ pastime to remain solely for 'people like them ' ( Pale , Male, Stale )  first  two of those characteristics they can;t do much about , but  the staleness is  100 % a choice 


OK , now I can start to press the 'taking offence' button.

I've yet to meet anyone in my particular sports that act in that way, and that includes all the dinghy sailors I come into contact with. Frankly that expression 'Pale Male Stale is just as offensive as any other term that would be considered and whined at as 'racist' by hand wringers and I certainly take exception to its use at my fellow sportsmen. Nobody can help the shade of their skin save for risking skin cancer in the summer, no one can really alter their gender,not without surgery and a particular mindset, and stale? well maybe if you sail a Solo, but then nobody I know still does.

So, in the words of the prophet Isaiah, you can do one, with that expression thanks just the same.



Edited by iGRF - 31 Mar 21 at 7:20pm
Back to Top
423zero View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 08 Jan 15
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3420
Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 7:56pm
I don't get it anyway (pale,male, stale), glad I don't really, sounds disgusting to be honest.
Robert
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 21 at 8:56pm
"People like them", also works in reverse if we want it to. If we use examples of the diverse nature of those who sail already, whether that be gender, skin colour or disability in our publicity, people start to think that maybe the sport has something to offer "them".
Nicola Jayne, I'd not come across that phrase before. I'm pale and male, and fighting against stale, though it's hard.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Sussex Lad View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 08 Jun 18
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 360
Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 21 at 7:59am
Originally posted by iGRF



OK , now I can start to press the 'taking offence' button.





Snowflake.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 45678 16>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy