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alstorer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Apr 13 at 3:35pm
and then some less attentive, less confident schmuck will have had the duff hull sold to them...
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 13 at 5:07pm
In days of old, when I was a Lark measurer, I pitched up to run the tape over a new composite. The builder-owner proudly told me it was right down to weight.

"So let's weigh it first" I say, at which he starts fiddling with spanners and the centreplate bolts

"What are you doing?" I ask

"Taking the plate out"

"But we weigh it with the plate in" I insist

"Don't!" "Do"

So we check the rules. Result: I was right. Cue one crestfallen deck-fitter (a Lark Ally plate weighs about 7kg if I recall) Hull including plate minimum was 90kg in those days

Oops
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 13 at 6:28pm
At least it will have measured - till he re-decked it to lose the 7kg...
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 13 at 6:37pm
I think he sold that one on and did another PDQ
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 13 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by alstorer

and then some less attentive, less confident schmuck will have had the duff hull sold to them...


Possibly, but you do (or did) see 2nds Lasers for sale (at a not much reduced price, IIRC) so it might have gone that route
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 13 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by transient

.Recently there's been some boat weighing at the club, this was prompted by the variation in 2000 hull weights (our 2k sailors being uber competitive)

I'd love to know the results of the 2k weighing session - there is so much mythology that has built up over the years about the early boats being lighter.
 


Originally posted by transient

I don't know of any 2000 myths. I sailed one a few times though, never again, too heavy on the beach for my liking.

As for the weighing session, I'll dig the facts out and report back.


OK, The facts are: 2 2k hulls were weighed on the same scales and in the same manner i.e. suspended from the ceiling on scales. 

One 2k was a very early purple hulled boat, sail number in the region of 2500. It weighed 128 kgs.

The second 2k hull was 18 months old and weighed 138 kgs.

....as I said earlier, I know nothing of any 2k myths. I wonder what the RS target weight will be?
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 13 at 6:07pm
Thanks for that; the difference is not so huge, after all.

I think the theory always existed that the oldest ones were quicker, but it was given considerable momentum when Laser changed their info for the 2k from 100 to 140 kg bare hull weight after a few years. An RS boat on 100kg would be something indeed, though I very much doubt they'd go that far.

What amuses (and frustrates) me is the way the class is so anal about not allowing small rigging mods, which would significantly improve the boat in my view, but which are as nothing speedwise to even just 10kg variation in hull weight.  Who knows what the full spread of weights is?
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 13 at 9:03pm
I feel that about the Laser 4000 too.
I'd object to not being able to use a tapered sheet if I felt like making one.
It's more understandable perhaps with the 2k, as many boats were owned by organisations, and it helps make a borrowed boat competitive.
120-odd kg seems a lot for a smallish boat, but the variation is more worrying if you want to take the racing seriously.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 13 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

...not allowing small rigging mods, which would significantly improve the boat in my view,

Thing is those sorts of things add an awful lot of hassle to boat ownership for the non bimblers, which is surely their target market. If you want to optimise a boat to the death, you should at least be in one of the multi manufacturer classes.

Although it doesn't suit me I can empathise strongly with people who just want to go sailing and don't want to fiddle with the boat, and its good there should be classes for them. Every little tweak you permit makes the boat more hostile for the non-fiddler. I think there's going to be a sense in which it seems: if you don't do the fiddling you may as well not bother, which for many I fear means they won't bother...
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 13 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by JimC

Every little tweak you permit makes the boat more hostile for the non-fiddler. I think there's going to be a sense in which it seems: if you don't do the fiddling you may as well not bother, which for many I fear means they won't bother...
So moving a ratchet block from the swivel jammer on the hull to the boom to permit off-the-boom sheeting - something you could do to a club boat in 5 minutes if you wished - would put people off racing a class, whereas knowing their boat may be 10-20kg heavier won't have put them off in the least?
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