New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Olympic Classes for 2012
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Olympic Classes for 2012

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 30>
Author
kanga View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 09 Oct 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 248
Post Options Post Options   Quote kanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic Classes for 2012
    Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 3:32pm
i can sort of see both sides of the arguement to be honest - eventually sailing has to evolve within the games, so there will always be a time when olympic sailors do lose out on kit and related costs/time associated with a new class.

the trouble is, as howden has said, campaigns are run on an 8yr basis realistically, so people need to know far enough in advance, but this is impractical, especially for those who have no relaistic chance of making it to the next games, they take an early break and then competition numbers fall etc.

but the XX was not my personal favourite by any means, its underpowered and not deisgned for the job, a purpose built boat would be fantastic, and i am sure others will agree, but from the crop that were up for selection, the RS800 and the Int 14 were the best - the 14 would need to be standardised to reduce costs and the 800 made a bit more powerful still, but the XX really doesn't cut it.
Back to Top
Jon Emmett View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 988
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 5:34pm
Costs of a 4 year campaign 470 Vs Tornado

Based on a person who has campaigned both (470 World Champion 1995, 2002 and Tornado European Champion 2007, 2008): Kostas Trigonis

Net cost 470 120, 200
Net cost Tornado 77,020

Costs of a one design Tornado would obvious be less than this.

Summary Table                                 470                               Tornado

Campaign Costs                       140.200 €           ;                    109.020 €
Resale proceeds                        20.000 €           ;                     32.000 €
Net Cost                                   120.200 €                           77.020 €


4 Years Campaign Costs Quantity Unit Price Total Quantity Unit Price Total

                                                         470                                        Tornado
Boats 4 -one per year     17000 68.000 €                        2 boats  22500 45.000 €
Sails Sets 5 per year        1700 34.000 €           ;            2 per year 4500 36.000 €
Extra spinnakers 3 per year 1500 6.000 €           ;                                          0
Extra jibs 3 per year              350 4.200 €                                                     0
Rudder-centerboards  4 sets 1500 6.000 €           ;                  2 sets 2250 4.500 €
Spare Masts 4           ;           ; 1500 6.000 €                         2 masts 3300 6.600 €
Ropes- Gear- Hardware 4 sets 4000 16.000  €           ;            1 set   1500 1.500 €
Spare Beams                                     0                           4 beams 1500 6.000 €
Trampoline                                         0                      4 trampolines 330 1.320 €
Battens                                               0                              2 batterns 300 600 €
Spinnaker poles complete                    0                            3 poles 1500 4.500 €
Miscellaneous Spares                         0                                 1 set 3000 3.000 €

Total                                            140.200 €                                     109.020 €

Resale Value

Maximum                                          6.000€                                      18.000 €
Minimum                                         5.000 €           ;                             16.000 €

Notes

Based Olympic Campaigns 1996, 2000, 2004 in 470 and 2008 in Tornado
* 470 World Champion 1995,2002 ; Tornado European Champion 2007,2008
1. Transportation Costs excluded, because identical, owing transport
COMPARATIVE

I think things will be much clearer on Friday.

http://www.tornado.org/


Edited by Jon Emmett
Back to Top
winging it View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3958
Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 6:00pm
Well, no one loves 470s more than I do, but in terms of getting more women into Olympic sailing, and then sailing overall,  some kind of skiff has to be the way to go.

The problem with the 470 as a women's boat is that to be sailed properly it requires (especially for a venue like Weymouth) a crew of at least 5' 9" plus, and weighing at least 70 kg.  How many women do you know of that size?

The 470 is a superb boat, no doubt about that, but it is not a good boat to further women's sailing.  Most young female sailors that I speak to want to be doing what the boys do: blasting around in a skiff, having fun and sailing what they perceive as an up to date boat.  And why not?

While the numbers sailing 470s around the world may be high, the numbers of women sailing are low.  What is needed to correct this and also in the Olympics (IMHO) is a boat that will keep girls in sailing and get more females into the sport full stop.

In this country the 470 is a dead loss as a women's class, always has been.  Not many women want to sail it because of size issues and its 'old fashioned' appearance.  Hopefully a new Olympic class will bring the women's dinghy sailing up to the standard of the other classes.  A fresh start would be an excellent thing in this regard.

I'm afraid this is an issue where quantity has to triumph over quality.
the same, but different...

Back to Top
Skiffman View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 27 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 291
Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 6:29pm
haha jon, there is no way that a tornado campaign is cheaper! What about the sail developement budget (or did you forget to put that in). 470's are not cheap to campaign but then nothing is!

hoping the tornado takes the 49er spot for the 2012 games?
49er GBR5

teamfletcherandsign.co.uk
Team Fletcher and Sign campaign site
Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 6:35pm
As it stands there is no cat event so it's not relevant; perhaps there will be an 11th medal soon ....
Back to Top
Jon Emmett View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 988
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 6:39pm
Sail development, coaching, accommodation and logistical costs etc have been excluded because they where identical for this specific campaign.

As far as possible the table is a like for like comparison compiled by Kostas Trigonis (not myself).

The figures are based on a Sailor who has sailed 470 and Tornado at the highest possible level.

There will be no sail development costs for the one design Tornado.

The hope is the 11th event (Catamaran) will be confirmed next month.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 6:43pm
Could the Tornado not be the high performance dinghy? To the outside world, the number of hulls is pretty meaningless.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Douglaina View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 12 Nov 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Post Options Post Options   Quote Douglaina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 6:58pm

Referring back a few posts ago about youth sailing worlds I think I saw somewhere on the isaf site that there is a proposal that 420's and 29'ers will both be included which makes much more sense to me.

Back to Top
Vronny View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 31 Mar 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 121
Post Options Post Options   Quote Vronny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 08 at 9:46pm

All very interesting. A skiff class for the girls sounds like a very attractive idea but as others have said it could cause problems for some countries, at least in the short term. I looked up the results of the ISAF Youth Worlds to see how many entries there were for the girls 29er event and there were only 18, compared to 25 for the boys 29er, and 40 girls in laser radials and 45 boys in lasers - perhaps there were limits set? - but it seems to suggest that girls are sailing skiff-type boats in relatively few countries.This could then mean that it will be some time before lots of countries are able to put forward competitive female skiff sailors for olympic selection.

Comments about the suitability of olympic classes to cope with wide wind ranges also have to be valid considering the culmination of 4 years preparation rests on approx. 1 week's sailing - and the conditions can so often be too windy or very light. Sailing looks a pretty stupid sport if, when the actual event comes around, the boats can't cope too well!

Not that that will be a problem at Weymouth of course! And perhaps the 29erXX does sail well in all conditions anyway.

 

Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 08 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Nick Peters

as (we had been told) further trials would be held where new products or significant mods to existing classes would be considered alongside others for the high performance slot. How wrong and mis-informed we were.


It certainly certainly doesn't smell of cedarwood and frankincense... I've just been through the papers and worked out how it happened, but I still don't see how the 29erXX can qualify under ISAF regulations. It seems that to have got on the November list a class had to be on the submissions to the May conference, and all classes that were in commissions are in the list that can be selected from, even when, like the catamarans, there's no event left they can be selected for (at the moment anyway).

But Council will have to change a whole load of regulations to permit selecting a Class that isn't International, recognised or has been recommended by trials, and I do't think such changes are on the Agenda. If the XX does get through someone must have been doing some mightily effective lobbying...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 30>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy