Embarrassed L2 Sailor

Originally posted by piglet Happy to lose to Transient any day, it's those L2K's that needle me!

I suspect I'd be very unlikely to beat you with a accurate PY.

And WB: I thought you wanted to get away from partisan decisions made by cliques of so called experts in smoke filled rooms. I personally prefer a data driven system.....but......what to do with dying fleet data. Is it really valid if a handicap on boat performance is the objective?

Edited by transient - 12 Apr 15 at 11:47pm

Add to that the classes where the handicap has moved, but the class is still going strong (Topper, Miracle, Comet come to mind) and you get a very complex situation indeed. How would you tie the L2 handicap movement to those classes?

Originally posted by Oli Transient, there are several factors that could affect a number.  It could be that laser 2 sailors are getting slower compared to everyone else due to either boat age diminishing the performance, or thee sailor age and their diminishing performance. It could also be boats have been moved on and the laser 2 is now in the hands of a majority of more novice sailors.  It's probably a combination of all of those but deciding how much each one affects the number is difficult.

Yes indeed, I heard a similar argument recently....but why is that relevant? I'm not interested in a "Boat age" based handicap, neither am I interested in a "boat crew demography" or a "boat maintenance"/ "availability of spares" based handicap. All I'm interested in is a potential "boat performance" handicap.

But how do you know the data was right to start with? If a class has been sailed to above average standard in the past copared to other classes, then by leaving it at the level it was then, you are doing a huge disservice to those currently sailing the boat, racing against classes that have never had those heady heights of participation.

As for using the "everyone knows" technique of number adjustment, as WB suggests... well, I think you've proved over the years that "everybody" doesn't know. They have opinions, based on very narrow experience.

I never did get an answer to the question of whether Solos and Streakers raced against each other anywhere, with equally skilled sailors, and how the results turned out? And it sounds like the Solutions have been beating the Miracles at Redoubt, if that is the right club, so maybe 1210 not too much of a bandit number after all?

The Solution now has I would guess a slightly favorable handicap, or it could also be that the two helms using them would have been sailing Miracles in the past so they can't both be on the water together. I haven't been down there for a bit, but the Solo Streaker question is pretty obvious, One has an 8.5 mtr sail the other has a 6.5 mtr sail and given size wise there aint much in it, it's fair to say even an imbecile can spot which one is likely going to go faster, either way they are not nor ever were the same.

Edited by Woodburner - 13 Apr 15 at 11:41am