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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nick Craig
    Posted: 14 Oct 13 at 10:07pm
In other sports they refer to "trainability"
Believe me the youth system does turn out a lot of kids who can hike out or whatever but don't have sailors brains.
Nobody gets to the very top at senior level internationally without having a) a real sailors brain b) the enthusiasm to love it even if you are doing it 200 days a year plus to the detriment of the rest of life c) real physical talent d) a lot of dedication.
All of that has to be in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 13 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Finn sailor

Hi, new to posting on this forum but thought I might offer some info on the Nick Craig vs Olympic sailor debate. Nick started sailing Finns in the winter of 2004 at a national ranking event in Warsash. I seem to remember he came 12th ish. He must have worked hard as he than promptly won the nationals the following year, (though the GB squad were not present). He than pretty much threw himself into Finn sailing for the next 3 years attending GB squad training sessions on a number of occasions. In 2006 he competed in the Holland Regatta coming a creditable 38th out of 72, in 2007 he sailed in the Semaine Olyimpique coming 49th out of 69. He finished off 2007 with an exceptional 20 th in the Europeans though the field was slightly weaker than normal due to the absence of some top sailors including the uk's big 3 (Ainslie, Scott and Wright).  He was a great amateur sailor in the class and a thoroughly nice bloke. I am pretty sure however that Nick would be the 1st to admit that the very top international Olympic class sailors are at a completely different level with regard boat speed, starting, wind knowledge and yes tactics. This is not to detract from him as a superb amateur sailor, his record in national and international non Olympic classes is in my view unsurpassed, I have only brought this up as I feel many sailors do not have a full appreciation of just how good the Ainslies, Scott's, Goodisons and other team GB sailors are!

Interesting and informative post which ignores that part of the challenge for Nick in the Finn was building a suitable physique.  And that being full time is a massive aid to that.  See posts above for nature/nurture and trainability.  You can only lack so much of each before you can't cross the divide.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Clive Evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 13 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by Clive Evans

I can categorically state that Ben would get 8 firsts assuming the mast he was given didnt break, the sails shread or someone forgot to empty the hull of the waste from when it was used at Glastonbury in the summer

It is a very tricky spot to sail but Ben has olympic medals from Savannah, sydney harbour, Athens, qingdao container terminal and Weymouth so I think he can handle the crouch/roach combination

I think you are getting a bit carried away. Ben has done this even and didn't win. 


 
what year did he do it? Results on the website only go back to 2005 i think
 
I notice that in 2005 paul goodison sailed the event with an olympic crew and he too didn;t win so i stand corrected
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Finn sailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 13 at 10:52pm
True, weight and strength conditioning are a huge part of medium to heavy wind sailing in Finns as they are to a lesser degree in all classes. I did however race regularly against Nick and the top squad boys during that period and whilst Nick would beat the younger transition squad boys in light airs 50 percent of the time. He very rarely beat Ed Wright or Giles Scott in lighter tactical conditions. Ben Ainslie was so good he would only dabble with the Finn in uk events preferring to do and usually win the odd class 1 international and of course all those gold cups whilst in the main concentrating on match racing. He only really took it seriously (by his standards) on the 2yr lead up to an Olympics.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 13 at 11:30pm
If you look at last years Merlin Nationals, an Olympian won it, but it was not a walkover.
This year Nick beat the people who were serious challenging said olympian.

But different people excel in sailing in different ways.
Only the full time olympic types probably reach their full potential.
Perhaps many amateurs had the raw talent to be olympic standard but not everyone is singleminded enough.
Several leagues above my level, but I only sail for my own pleasure.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 12:14am
Sailing well is as much a mental thing as it is physical and I believe you can OD on the physical and practise side to beyond the point of boredom, you lose your edge because frankly you've done it so often you take stuff for granted.

I watched every race at Weymouth and I can't say I saw any of the UK team at anything like what I would call being 'in the zone'.(Except that young radial lass she was having a blast)

Whatever was going on for Nick and Alan I bet they were sure as hell in the zone up at Burnham and it's a far trickier piece of water to sail than Weymouth and yes I have sailed it.

And that Finn racing? Kinetics, every bit as kinetic as my world became, yeah it's sailing, but not the sort of sailing where the old skills win. For me, the Dane won that Olympic event, hands down, this double point medal race bollox is just pure distortion to enable pro guys to regain temporary focus for effect, its not the sport I love.

Edited by iGRF - 15 Oct 13 at 12:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 8:36am
I thought for a moment you were going to celebrate British success then.  But no, pulled it out the bag at the last minute.  The planets are back in alignment and the spiritual world is happy again...

ps just how did the Dane win when BA was given the gold medal?
What could possibly go wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Dougal

I thought for a moment you were going to celebrate British success then.  But no, pulled it out the bag at the last minute.  The planets are back in alignment and the spiritual world is happy again...
ps just how did the Dane win when BA was given the gold medal?


Never heard the term moral victory Dougal? Frankly I was ashamed that he lost, it may have been another win that sailing types love to think is acceptable, but that guy was absolutely storming and deserved the medal having it match and team raced away in one race that counts as double is not a fair result in my book.
Any more than big money putting in advanced control systems mid event to win is either, so no the Ben Ainslie brand name doesn't cut it with me.

Edited by iGRF - 15 Oct 13 at 9:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 9:34am
you stand more chance of convincing us you were right about the V-Twin than getting us to take off the rose tints when it comes to Serben.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 9:44am
Did I suggest I was trying to convince anyone about anything?

I'm simply stating my view which for some unlucky, badly wired brain control system reason, tends to be contrary to the popular view.

So it, my brain, thinks a chap like Nick Craig is a better sailing competitor than Ben Ainslie, that is all.
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