Defibs at clubs.

   And we all hope that all clubs have at least one and train people to use it.

And we all hope that not one is ever used!

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ian.r.mcdonald Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440	Post Options Post Reply Quote ian.r.mcdonald Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Defibs at clubs. Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 12:24pm
	And we all hope that all clubs have at least one and train people to use it. And we all hope that not one is ever used!

Sussex Lad Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 360	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sussex Lad Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 12:35pm
	Indeed. In the clubhouse or boathouse absolutely. On a safety boat though? Sams link very interesting although it doesn't mention salt water. Much Higher conductivity.

Sam.Spoons Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3400	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sam.Spoons Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 12:41pm
	I'd guess all Lifeboats carry one so seawater is, likely, not a problem. edit :- E Class and All Weather Lifeboats do carry a defibrillator, D Class (and all except the smallest ILB) carry a 'full resuscitation kit' but I can't find any details, will ask next time I'm at Holyhead. Edited by Sam.Spoons - 24 Feb 20 at 12:57pm
	Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"

jeffers Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048	Post Options Post Reply Quote jeffers Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 12:54pm
	Given how restrictive most safety boats are I would say you couldnt get an AED to work in them. At larger events of club that regularly use a committee boat for starting then one on board there might be sensible. At Hunts the powerboat can cross the lake in about 30-40 seconds at full speed. The instructions are to drive the boat onto the shore in an emergency. So would I muck about trying to get a defib if I was on safety, no I would get the casualty to the shore ASAP. At a larger club (say Grafham or Rutland) or on the sea that decision will be different.
	Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74

polc1410 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Posting king Joined: 10 Jan 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 147	Post Options Post Reply Quote polc1410 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 24 Feb 20 at 10:31pm
	RNLI D and 85's do not carry a defib. This is an organisation not short of money. They could afford to put two on every boat in a specially designed custom built enclosure. But deployment in the base of a Rib is "challenging". If you've never tried chest compressions in the base of a RIB at speed - try it! Now consider defibrillation. Your RIB will need to stop... A DCA ambulance normally stops to shock. The most likely cause of death sailing is presumably drowning. Current protocol = 5 breaths then compressions. 5 breaths = 30 seconds. If your lake is 1 mile long and you are doing 20+kts then you are 1/3rd of the way ashore. Practice with face mask - resus from the head is about the only viable way on a RIB. The RNLI E Class defib is actually as a method to quickly get a defib to a shore location like a pontoon without needing to worry about London Traffic! Ensuring the right RIB got there first etc would also be a complication. There may be cases where you'd consider it but I suspect most lakes will be better to have it meet the rib as it comes ashore. We have had one for a while after a neighbouring club had a shore based arrest. We are rural, you'd hope the air ambulance happened to be returning to base by chance! We fund raised specifically for it. Selection was guided by ambulance service who did some initial training. Other factors to consider - child (some use special pads) - battery life - pad life - consumables - if someone is big sick and has the pads attached but not used how much does replacement cost - packaging - is it in a bag? Does the bag have space for extras like tough scissors (wetsuit / drysuit off) resus mask, etc. - how would any future software update be done? (Software updates could be needed if UK ResusCouncil updates the protocol... In my experience - getting a club "shore" to efficiently respond to a radio call will be a major cause of delay. If your club protocol is to change channel for 'privacy' has it been tested and does it actually delay placing the 999 call?

ian.r.mcdonald Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440	Post Options Post Reply Quote ian.r.mcdonald Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 9:28am
	Sounds like the voice of both experience and knowledge. Very useful stuff

423zero Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 08 Jan 15 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3420	Post Options Post Reply Quote 423zero Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 9:57am
	Biggest issue for my club is poor mobile signal, would have to find a member with a signal.
	Robert

NicolaJayne Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Posting king Joined: 01 Mar 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 109	Post Options Post Reply Quote NicolaJayne Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 10:37am
	I agree with Polc1410 - they obviously have some level of involvement in this professionally ( the use of DCA to refer to a double crewed ambulance) suggests involvement A+E / ambulance service/ VAS )

fleaberto Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302	Post Options Post Reply Quote fleaberto Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 12:52pm
	Some really useful input. Cheers everyone. One of my clubs is very small in terms of water size, so we could have casualties ashore pretty quickly. I'm minded to recommend at least one device ashore. The scenario that has been painted regarding the whole resus process on a moving rib (assuming the craft is big enough in the first place) paints a very good picture and all that I'd been considering whilst discussing this issue with our committee. Thanks everyone, some good points raised, thankyou
	Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'

Sussex Lad Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Far too distracted from work Joined: 08 Jun 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 360	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sussex Lad Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Feb 20 at 1:13pm
	Any clubs sending out inexperienced/new to sailing/no first aid cert volunteers as safety boat crews? I suspect there are some. Getting a casualty into a rib and knowing how to perform cardiac massage might be a challenge to some crews.