59er sailing.

Originally posted by skslr <FONT face=Helv size=2><FONT face=Helv size=2> <P dir=ltr>It was not meant to be "offensive" or "aggressive" in any way, the "using mouth" expression was partly taken from an earlier post by Slippery Jim . <P dir=ltr>Can I hide behind needing some more cross cultural training for now? Even if my wording is not appropriate I still believe the point needed to be made and could be helpful for the future, sorry.

No problem skslr! I thought I´d made a mistake about RS400/800! Here
however is a quote from one of his postings, so maybe HE got it wrong!?!
LucM "have sailed 490 for many years and owned an RS600 (though never
sailed it a
lot), turned to RS400 sailing in 2004"

Thanks for the "correction". As for "having a go", that´s more or less how
Luc phrased it to me. You should read the recent banter on the
skiffbenelux forum perhaps (anyone can - it´s in English)

One final thing,
in native English language circles, self irony is considered to be a higher
form of wit, indicating the generosity and light-heartedness of the
person making the statement.

Still, saying that, don´t drag your lower lip in the sand ´cos we´re all
good pals here. (Sounds off, of burying the hatchet and all that sort
of thing...)

(Freisegler hier, wie Du wahrscheinlich weiß . Ich dachte, der
Kriegsbeil wurde begraben? ) Actually Lads and
lasses, skslr is quite ok. I know him from a German language forum.

Edited by Slippery Jim

Originally posted by skslr <FONT face=Helv size=2><FONT face=Helv size=2> <P dir=ltr>Luc definitely nows his stuff... <P dir=ltr>He sailed the RS400, then the 59er and following that "experience" joined the RS800 fleet, i.e. the 59er demo was later than 2004. <P dir=ltr>Not sure if I need to read about that in another forum after having raced against him being in each of these boats. <P dir=ltr>The class needs your enthusiasm, especially in Germany. <P dir=ltr>Negative and even incorrect comments on other peoples choices/capabilities like in this thread might be overdoing it, though. Or is all of that a kind of self irony I completly missed?

Wonderful! Yes, yours IS a complete missunderstanding of the whole
point of my posting. "The class needs your enthusiasm, especially in
Germany". Agreed! "Negative and even incorrect comments on other
peoples choices/capabilities like in this thread might be overdoing it,
though."

You have already been informed by at least one other who posts here
that what I wrote in a previous posting would have been considered by
the majority to be very light-hearted and certainly not to be taken in such
a serious a vein as you are doing now.

Irrespective of your answer and as to whether I decide to post further
about the 59er class or not and irrespective of my apparently
irrelevant/incorrect/comments and/or ignorance in this matter - and for
which I would like to apologise to LucM - the 59er class will still continue
on since the boat speaks for itself.

As a final comment, elsewhere you have felt prompted to critisise the
59er, since inter alia, what I enthused about in the other forum
apparently didn´t fit into the way you thought about the 59er with
respect to your class, the RS800. So, we had alittle disagreement...
Now here you say that the 59er needs (my) support, especially in
Germany, ironically after having been negative about the boat in a
German forum....Rather patronising, don´t you think?

So, to quote a famous author, "So long, and thanks for all the fish."
Signing off...

I was a one time printer, so totally get your font pov.

So clearly what is needed now on this thread is a bit of sans serif italian
input perhaps.

To really liven things up.

Originally posted by skslr Oh, yes, I failed to give bonus points to the 59er for being designed by the Bethwaites as compared to being designed by others. (Morrison comes to mind...) Not good. Nevertheless I think  the 59er with all of it's pro's and con's could coexist with RS800 as well as other similar boats in Germany quite nicely as it covers a different market niche. Looking at similar existing conventional classes 'single trapeze' might be better received than 'no trapeze'. The GER 9er dealer is in a tricky situation as he is also a leading supplier of 505's, so some independent promotion is maybe even more important than in GBR.  Thats's it from my side - sorry for wasting everybody's time.

skslr thank you for your input. I think the pros and cons of the 59er are very much subjective, perhaps also having something to do with crew weight. I deliberately chose the boat because I'm Finn side of heavy as opposed to the Laser side of light. If you're not up in the high 160's kilowise with this boat, you'll have difficulty. As you have apparently sailed her before, you'll know she's also quite unforgiving and not at all "dumbed down"  for slower, heavier sailors, as some might have one believe.

Frank Bethwaite also thinks that the design works better for most people with a single trapeze, so this option will probably be in the new class rules, or at least tolerated. For your information, there are TWO German 9er dealers, Steinlechner in Utting, Bavaria and Jess up North. Both cooperated to market the 59er and both cooperate now. Jess has the 505. I spoke to him (Holger) 2 or 3 weeks ago to try to find out how many 59ers there were in Germany and he said he hadn't sold one single boat. Steinlechner neither. Too bad. But that does not influence my choice for sailing pleasure which fits my challenge window.

The RS800 is a different class of boat, and has different sailing qualities. I'm not knocking it. As for promoting the 59er, the more she's sailed, the greater the following. I don't have the money to promote her myself, but I do have the time to sail her  

One final point.Skiff sailors are rarer than other types of sailor and justifiably so. We should be promoting the idea of skiff sailing in general, not trying to trip one another up over, what are more-or-less subjectively driven motive issues. So as I tried to indicate before, we ought to bury the hatchet (Kriegsbeil begraben).

Good luck up North and I'll try to get up as often as I can.

Jim.

Edited by Slippery Jim

Originally posted by patj So 59er facts please. What's the highest UK sail number? When were they last made? And what faults should a buyer look out for?

These questions are better answered by Dave Hall or Chris Turner at
Ovington boats.

I'm just an enthusiast and I´d probably be accused of spreading
disinformation later on.
The link is
www.ovingtonboats.com

I think.

Cheers!

Jim.