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jeffers 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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 Topic: Sailing rulesPosted: 21 Feb 06 at 9:10am |
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It is possible to sail a boat with an unstayed mast very deep by the lee and it is much faster then changing to the opposite tack in certain conditions (marginal planing is the most obvious or going downwind in waves).
There were some good vids of this on the Rooster sailing website if anyone wants a practical demonstration. However back on topic....If I were sailing close hauled on port and someone was sailing towards me by the lee on port I would expect them to keep clear. If they didn't it would go to the protest room and people far more learned than myself would sort out which rules apply and I would be confident of winning. In practice I would not expect to see this kind of situation. It is far more likely that the boat by the lee will be on an opposite tack to the boat close hauled which then turns it in to a much simpler port/starboard situation (which happens quite often at my local club where certain (ex)Laser sailors go deep by the lee and come across Phantoms going upwind). I passed it to one of the rules 'gurus' I know and he reckoned the boat by the lee should give way (but didnt cite any rules). He is going to analyse and put a section in the next club newsletter so once I see that I will post his thoughts. Paul |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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gordon
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Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 9:24am |
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Bumble, I put your name at the head of this message so that everyone knows that I am replying to the point you just made. As for the "whirlwind of wonder" I have only been repeating (ad nauseam, perhaps) the definitions given in the rules that govern our sport. These definitions can, in exceptional circumstances, create a situation were Rules 10,11 and 12 do not apply. "flicking the twat" is not an option...stupidity is not against the rules. The rules only insist on spoçrtsmanship and fair play (rule 2). Gross breaches of a rule, good manners or sportmanship, or bringing the sport into disrepute are not permitted (Rule 69.1 a). If "flicking the twat" was part of the game I would, for instance, when sitting on a protest committee, always find against the "twat" who walks into the protest room with a pint in his hand. As I, and most other judges, don't drink until the last protest has been heard, such behaviour is "twattish" in the extreme. Gordon
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Gordon
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tack'ho
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Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 9:37am |
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I have to say I am in toatal agreement with Gordon. The point is any sailor coming downwind who gets involved in this sort of situation is an idiot. All he needs to do is watch whats going on luff a little to go astern of the beating boat smile sweetly at them and make sure they show no sign of tacking, if they do a quick shout of wait till i'm passed pleased, (room to keep clear, quickest way to clear is to continue downwind) and revel in the fact he's far enough ahead to have this type of quandry! |
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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 10:10am |
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Actually I didn't. Read it again. |
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Stefan Lloyd
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Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 10:21am |
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Unfortunately I don't think he is in agreement with you. |
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tack'ho
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Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1100 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 10:57am |
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If you read my first post I said that i thought that neither hand rights on each other as they were both leeward boats to the other, which in essence is what Gordon is syaing. All i'm saying is its easiest for the sailor heading downwind to keep clear and prevent a collision and staying out of trouble is fast! |
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I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e!
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gordon
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 11:06am |
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Sorry Stefan I misquoted you. However it would have been more correct to say that a boat running on port by the lee MAY be approached by a beating port tacker from the stbd side (as viewed from the running boat. In which case the situation under consideration does not arise. However, the close hauled boat MAY under exceptional but not impossible conditions, approach the by the lee boat on the running boats port side, inwhich case both boats have the other boat ton their windward side. I understand now that we have not established the facts... your analysis is correct - but for a different situation. I hope this sketch makes things clear. The situation may seem unlikely but Laser's, for instance, can find themselves by the lee in this way as can, for instance, Marblehead's with their balanced rig. |
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Gordon
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gordon
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Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 11:11am |
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I do agree with tack'ho, who agrees with me. I also agree that the by the lee boat should understand that the close-hauled boat will be confused and keep clear. In any case both boats are bound by Rule 14, and as neither is a right of way boat, nor are either one entitled to room, neither can be exonerated if there is contact.
Gordon |
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Gordon
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 11:13am |
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Any river sailor will have seen situations similar to this...or boats beating or running towards each other on the same tack as the wind swirls madly...you have a choice. Either keep out of each other's way and get on with the race, or crash into each other, let the rest of the fleet through, and go to a protest which will be decided by someone who will just have to take best guess. Can you work out which is the better option?!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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far canal
Posting king 
Joined: 01 Feb 06 Location: Micronesia Online Status: Offline Posts: 110 |
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Posted: 21 Feb 06 at 12:03pm |
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Here wwe go again .
Its flippin simple Wind coming from top of page . Both boats same tack. Yellow boat is to windward . Yellow boat gives way ! Problem ???????????????????
PS its best to let yiour main out beyond 90 degrees to run by the lee ! How the fek can winward side of yellow be down wind you numbties ! if yellow is running by lee wind is coming from starboard side !
Edited by far canal |
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