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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Jan 20 at 10:31am
I too am entirely self taught, my only qualification is a long expired Windsurfing L1 Instructor ticket.

Laser would not faze too many beginners with the sail wrapped around the mast a couple of times.

The rules only apply to racing so probably not a barrier to beginners getting into a boat.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 20 at 10:56am
I try and make sure my courses make things simple. The idea is to give a bit of structure to learning so the "get on with it" bit becomes a successful learning experience, not a scary one.
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Posts: 476 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 20 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Yes sailing is too complex - but it's the rules that are far too complex. The boats - just a little. 
 

The rules are complex if you are racing at a high level but I think you would be fine for the first 5-10 races at club level if you only know four. 


* Port-Stbd

* Windward/leeward

* Clear asturn avoids clear ahead  or described as an enhancement of Overtaking boat keeps clear

* You are entitled to room from boats outside of you at a mark but not if you come flying in late.


The second two of those are wrong from a strict wording point of view, but from a practical point of view they will work and keep people out of trouble. Once they have done a few races then they will have experianced a few situations, and will understand more about how groups of boats come into conflict and go around marks etc and it will be eiser to enhance the basics and teach more.





Edited by Granite - 27 Jan 20 at 12:37pm
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 20 at 12:54pm
Yup, but I'd simplify it even further and advise them to just stay out of the way at marks and, in the unlikely event that they are overtaking, do likewise.
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 20 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Yup, but I'd simplify it even further and advise them to just stay out of the way at marks and, in the unlikely event that they are overtaking, do likewise.


My favourite ( I have edited) quote from a Solo report " some saw what was happening at the mark, went for a coffee and came back later"

Staying clear and relaxed is often really faster- and less " complex"
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Posts: 476 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 20 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Yup, but I'd simplify it even further and advise them to just stay out of the way at marks and, in the unlikely event that they are overtaking, do likewise.
 

Keeping out of the way is good advice, and if you are introducing people to racing then it is a key point to get over. Depending on how you teach room at the mark then you can start from keeping out of the way, but then build in the point about an inside boat coming in late and fast.



Something else that I think is good is predictability. I would generally recommend that people going for a sail when racing is on enter and sail the course. If boats are sailing the course then generally experianced sailors can predict what they are likely to do next and there will be less conflict than if people are just reaching back and fwd in the middle of the course.  
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Posts: 288 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bustinben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 20 at 9:06am
Originally posted by tink

 


The simple Laser, all the XD stuff, probably necessary but carbon top section of the mast, carbon tillers don’t to, my mind, add anything.



As someone who was getting through top sections at the same rate as sails (2-3 per season) I can tell you that the carbon top section has made a massive difference!  I haven't bought another top section for 2.5 years now.

Can't wait for the carbon bottom section to come out for the same reason.
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Yup, but I'd simplify it even further and advise them to just stay out of the way at marks and, in the unlikely event that they are overtaking, do likewise.

You've missed the point.

This is not how to survive your first attempts at sailing / racing. This was a general question - "is sailing too complex".

It's both too complex to be viewed by almost all spectators due to its rule set (apart from when on the water judging is being used, like the AC).

And it has too complex a rule set for participants, and an antiquated method of resolving those disputes. Which holds it back. Any rule set that can be debated is at risk of turning off participation. Sailing does this to the maximum. Protesting is like the very worst form of VAR imaginable.

Also our rules are needlessly complex, and could be defined far more simply than they are.
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Posts: 316 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 10:55am
Totally disagree jack. The worst problem in sailing is not the rules or people lack of knowledge of them. It’s people who know the rules but disregard them because they don’t apply to them. And the word for them is CHEAT. 
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 20 at 11:47am
Yup, me too, simplifying the rules would be a 'sea lawyer's' charter and lead to more and more contentious protests.

But the OP was related to the complexity of modern boats rather than the complexity of the racing rules. However managing the rules at club level is a matter of culture, I can't remember the last time I was involved in a protest at club level.
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