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    Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Did you sail any of them on the sea? I don't recall lambasting you then, but just query it now since the Halo hardly got a grip, was this Dinghy Magazine? I thought it had gone by the by before those boats came out.

In my experience of these things, relative tests, there are certain 'facts' that cannot be escaped. I've never sailed a Halo, but briefly owned the Blaze, if you are who I think you are, we met briefly up at that lake near Reading that caused all the Icon problems with its coastal handicap, I forget its name. Irrelevant to the discussion, my point, I do have one, to thoroughly tests boats they need to be sailed in at least three different venues, Inland puddle like that Reading one, a big open water like QM or coastal estuary like Minster and a South Coast club like Hastings, Bexhill, Us or Lancing for example, only then can you really get to grips with the pro's and cons of those things, they can be such different animals on different water and that's the problem you (and I jest)'lazy' journalists have.

You're also dealing with peoples passions, which in itself is a nightmare. So product testing, weigh them, measure them, sail them on three different waters, use a common tester but complemented by guest testers with independently written reviews (don't let them compare notes) then write it up.

That's how to test stuff properly for mags and protect your back.


Great post again Graeme (whats going on, please post some bollox again soon so we can get back on track)

One of the things i like in Mtb magazines is the 'long Termers' where staff etc. run a bike for a season, warts and all review of whats broken, what they have upgraded, what they love, what they hate.

So much more balanced then one review on a flat pond, or somewhere where in frankly odd conditions something supposedly doesn't perform with a specific wave pattern!  Christ there ar not many dinghy designs, so long term tests should be easy!!!! 

I wont say cycling mags have it all right, they still spout stupid articles full of inaccuracies, like the recent wheel size tosh.  With different people riding different bikes with different wheels sizes then making a sweeping statement of whats best (just so happens to be what the market is pushing at that time)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:46pm
I like the idea of 3 boats, 3 testers, 3 venues, but it starts to sound pretty expensive, so who pays?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:46pm
Dougal,
Thanks for the insight.

I guess my problem with that is that its comparing apples with oranges when you compare a Halo (which seems to of disappeared) to a 100 and D1 (please excuse my ignorance as I chucked all my magazine back copies last year thanks to the wife 'Kicking off', so cant remember the 100vd1vHalo trial).  

One of the things I love about MTB and road bike reviews is they review categories properly.  So Sub £1000 hard-tails as an example.  The sample size is huge and i guess as a market they get countless new models making it easier to find new models to review.  They review the bike fairly in terms of what you are getting handling, value for money etc. with very limited (seems to me) brand loyalty.  I get that there will always be tester opinion across a broad range of brands and products, that's human nature.

But comparing a Single handed Kite hiker, with a unarig upgrade to an old design is not highlighting the best of that sector?  In the dinghy world its easy to category classes, so comparative reviews should be easy?  



All this leads us down an Ally of needing a new consumer lead magazine.  I guess it would be popular even in tablet format.  Just needs someone with some money they want to waste!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:43pm
Did you sail any of them on the sea? I don't recall lambasting you then, but just query it now since the Halo hardly got a grip, was this Dinghy Magazine? I thought it had gone by the by before those boats came out.

In my experience of these things, relative tests, there are certain 'facts' that cannot be escaped. I've never sailed a Halo, but briefly owned the Blaze, if you are who I think you are, we met briefly up at that lake near Reading that caused all the Icon problems with its coastal handicap, I forget its name. Irrelevant to the discussion, my point, I do have one, to thoroughly tests boats they need to be sailed in at least three different venues, Inland puddle like that Reading one, a big open water like QM or coastal estuary like Minster and a South Coast club like Hastings, Bexhill, Us or Lancing for example, only then can you really get to grips with the pro's and cons of those things, they can be such different animals on different water and that's the problem you (and I jest)'lazy' journalists have.

You're also dealing with peoples passions, which in itself is a nightmare. So product testing, weigh them, measure them, sail them on three different waters, use a common tester but complemented by guest testers with independently written reviews (don't let them compare notes) then write it up.

That's how to test stuff properly for mags and protect your back.

Edited by iGRF - 08 Sep 14 at 2:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:07pm
Gosh...how short are the memories of some of you (amongst the more frequent posters on here). I still have the scars from when that 'other' mag ran the sort of comparison tests you refer too and apparently wish for. Yes, you know who you are.... cast your minds back to the early days of the D-One and RS 100 and... the HALO. At the time I must have been one of the very first, if not THE first, person to have a reasonable time afloat in all three. Back then I thought that the D-One was simply superb, an amazing boat that all but re-defined single handed sailing. Nor was there anything wrong in the RS100, far from it, but in terms of sheer 'grunt' - the devoti boat was in a league of its own. But for the UK Club sailor, racing around the cans,the boat that to me offered stunning performance and (back then) the bests 'bangs for your buck' was the Halo.

Now I was lucky in that I had the freedom to write exactly what I though and did so, only to get howls of protest from a number of you on here along with suggestions that I should be strung up. It is an interesting perspective that 'TurnTurtle', nee 'Yellowwelly' nee..... would today recognise that writing about the boats on the back of having sailed them all is a very different kettle of fish to just writing about the boats - on here.

From a personal viewpoint, my observation is that it has never been easier than now to get a test sail in any of the new boats. Do that and form your own opinions, you may well find that these then are at odds with what you read elsewhere

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 11:40pm
Well in our game the going rate for full page A4 colour ROP (Run of Print, which means positioned at the mags discretion) was anything from £5-800 depending on your regularity and negotiating power, double spreads go for about 12-1500 and you pay more the further forward you position, Outside back used to be £800 to a Grand. Bike Mags before the recession used to charge a lot more, in the days before Future publication hit the wall.

The Online page turning plus videos, like iksurf or imbike he pretty much developed, so an ipsboat type thing would not be difficult to roll out using templates already fixed, the key is content, then I can promise instant exposure to that 150,000 click base, if it were me I'd not just line up the Aero & Zero, I'd chuck things like the new Supernova & that tasty looking Rooster Streaker and a modern Solo into the mix. Then I'd be all over that Aardvark rocket (not the slime green one) and some of those other tricked out boats you see at the dinghy show, I'd like a go in that Aura and have a bit of that exposed to a wider audience, that was a tragedy that a polished looking product like that evaporated into the ether.
Most of the rest of the world that carry out their action lifestyle lives have no idea these things even existed and if you want to market a sport, you need to market the sausage as well as the sizzle, and to do that you need a mag that sell both it and the sport it represents to a wider audience.
I have talked about it to Martin at RS and Rodney and a few others I run into now and again, but that's all it has been until now just talk, we've all had such a battering in this recession, calling us risk averse is a bit of an understatement.

Edited by iGRF - 07 Sep 14 at 11:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Well, I've been trying to persuade a colleague to launch a more 'dinghy, racey, performance sailing magazine' focused more on kit, boat tests, trick bits when they come out, but he needs me to produce five grand advertising to break even and I'm not sure the companies that engage in this market are up for that level of ad spend even collectively.

Which is a shame, because I'm sure a cross sold high image performance mag would be great to promote the sport to a younger market. This guy has seventy-five thousand apps downloaded across kite and bike sports types and his normal click rate is around twice that.

We're still talking, but it's lots of work.


Well according to the latest (2014) media pack/rate card that £5k would buy you a double page spread in Y&Y magazine

http://chelseamagazines.com/files/download/256/Marine_Media_Pack_2014.pdf

Although anybody who buys print advertising knows you never pay the full quote!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Well, I've been trying to persuade a colleague to launch a more 'dinghy, racey, performance sailing magazine' focused more on kit, boat tests, trick bits when they come out, but he needs me to produce five grand advertising to break even and I'm not sure the companies that engage in this market are up for that level of ad spend even collectively.

Which is a shame, because I'm sure a cross sold high image performance mag would be great to promote the sport to a younger market. This guy has seventy-five thousand apps downloaded across kite and bike sports types and his normal click rate is around twice that.

We're still talking, but it's lots of work.

Clap  Good post Graeme, it must be very hard especially if the likes of rs who have the resource to spend don't support the only magazine that vaguely promotes dinghy sailing!....even with 9 star reviews!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by Do Different

Printed magazines, really? So expensive now, little change from a fiver, very rarely buy one on any topic nowadays and if I do I am usually disappointed and annoyed with myself at the waste of money and paper.

Now for me a more attractive matter would be a good website updated weekly with credible technical articles and high resolution images at a subscription surely much less than printed copy would require.  



Fiver expensive, some people pay £8 for a packet of fags nowadays?? I love a good magazine and I'm happy to pay a fiver for it once a month.  Sadly we dont ave one anymore, havnt for some time.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:36pm
Can you still get Yachting and Boating Weekly?  Great mag.
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