RS aero Y&Y test
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11641
Printed Date: 10 Jul 25 at 5:18am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: RS aero Y&Y test
Posted By: Guests
Subject: RS aero Y&Y test
Date Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 7:20pm
The test of the RS aero is now in Yachts & Yachting boat show edition. I think they may have liked it A 9 star rating!
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Replies:
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 7:42pm
Oh dear, they must all be puppits of that fabulously sophisticated marketing machine.... I'm just waiting for fanboy to throw a tantrum about it..... 
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 05 Sep 14 at 10:33pm
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If it approached the test from the POV of a family looking for a mixed usage dinghy with some racing, I can't see why it wouldn't get an A+, irrespective of the advertising spend.... ------------- |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 11:49am
Yep seeing as the spend was £0... We try and write our boat tests as honestly as possible and I think Peter Barton does a fair job of that. We match our testing team to the boat to make sure the person has the most experience to make an informed review. ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 11:51am
Do rs really spend nothing on advertising in y&y then Tom? Serious question.
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Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 2:25pm
| I thought the article was fine. I think however the time has come to stop renewing my subscription, especially after reading the stupid article on school sailing. No balance and purely an opportunity to advertise private schools and further the pretence that sailing is for the financial elite. I'm shocked that Gael allowed the article frankly! |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 7:03pm
Ditto- don't RS advertise in Y&Y anymore? ------------- |
Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 7:17pm
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I stopped my subscription a while ago. One of my main complaints were the boat tests.
Can anyone remember the last one that was critical of the boat tested? There isn't even any information useful to an competent sailor in most of them that you couldn't have got out of the advertising bumph. And I'm sure it's got nothing to to do with the big players in the market withdrawing their advertising if things are written they don't like. Comparing a bike test to boat test is like comparing oil to water. |
Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 7:27pm
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And another one-after 35 years I've decided to cancel my subscription to Y&Y. I don't see much relevant to me in it any more. ------------- Stewart |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 06 Sep 14 at 8:28pm
Can't remember many crap boats lately to be honest, not like 15 or 20 years ago. The current major players seem to have their development process reasonably bugged, and the small ones mainly update existing classes where again the development is largely done. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 8:13pm
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I would have loved to see a test comparing Aero, D Zero and Laser, rather than just a text box about the others.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: E.J.
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 8:27pm
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Hmmm, there was a mag that used to do that sort of thing. It was absorbed into y&y with the promise of continuing the 'Dinghy' ethos. Jump forward several years and its hard to spot the dinghy article in amongst the big boat gazing and wristwatch ads. ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 8:54pm
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Well, I've been trying to persuade a colleague to launch a more 'dinghy, racey, performance sailing magazine' focused more on kit, boat tests, trick bits when they come out, but he needs me to produce five grand advertising to break even and I'm not sure the companies that engage in this market are up for that level of ad spend even collectively.
Which is a shame, because I'm sure a cross sold high image performance mag would be great to promote the sport to a younger market. This guy has seventy-five thousand apps downloaded across kite and bike sports types and his normal click rate is around twice that. We're still talking, but it's lots of work. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 9:06pm
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Anyone remember Fast Boat? Loved it, but how many issues happened? And that was pre internet. Is a paper mag really of interest to the facebook generation (a generation that is at least 60 years wide, it ha to be said) when everything in it has already been reported on/discussed on the internet way before anyway? I still have a Y&Y subscription, but only 1) out of habit 2) to support the only magazine in the slightest bit interested and 3) because every now and again there is a really good article, very often about an aspect of sailing I don't know too much about. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 9:57pm
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Printed magazines, really? So expensive now, little change from a fiver, very rarely buy one on any topic nowadays and if I do I am usually disappointed and annoyed with myself at the waste of money and paper. Now for me a more attractive matter would be a good website updated weekly with credible technical articles and high resolution images at a subscription surely much less than printed copy would require.
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Posted By: davidyacht
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:36pm
| Can you still get Yachting and Boating Weekly? Great mag. |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:46pm
Fiver expensive, some people pay £8 for a packet of fags nowadays?? I love a good magazine and I'm happy to pay a fiver for it once a month. Sadly we dont ave one anymore, havnt for some time.
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Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:50pm
 Good post Graeme, it must be very hard especially if the likes of rs who have the resource to spend don't support the only magazine that vaguely promotes dinghy sailing!....even with 9 star reviews! |
Posted By: Roger
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 10:52pm
Well according to the latest (2014) media pack/rate card that £5k would buy you a double page spread in Y&Y magazine http://chelseamagazines.com/files/download/256/Marine_Media_Pack_2014.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://chelseamagazines.com/files/download/256/Marine_Media_Pack_2014.pdf Although anybody who buys print advertising knows you never pay the full quote!!! |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 07 Sep 14 at 11:40pm
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Well in our game the going rate for full page A4 colour ROP (Run of Print, which means positioned at the mags discretion) was anything from £5-800 depending on your regularity and negotiating power, double spreads go for about 12-1500 and you pay more the further forward you position, Outside back used to be £800 to a Grand. Bike Mags before the recession used to charge a lot more, in the days before Future publication hit the wall.
The Online page turning plus videos, like iksurf or imbike he pretty much developed, so an ipsboat type thing would not be difficult to roll out using templates already fixed, the key is content, then I can promise instant exposure to that 150,000 click base, if it were me I'd not just line up the Aero & Zero, I'd chuck things like the new Supernova & that tasty looking Rooster Streaker and a modern Solo into the mix. Then I'd be all over that Aardvark rocket (not the slime green one) and some of those other tricked out boats you see at the dinghy show, I'd like a go in that Aura and have a bit of that exposed to a wider audience, that was a tragedy that a polished looking product like that evaporated into the ether. Most of the rest of the world that carry out their action lifestyle lives have no idea these things even existed and if you want to market a sport, you need to market the sausage as well as the sizzle, and to do that you need a mag that sell both it and the sport it represents to a wider audience. I have talked about it to Martin at RS and Rodney and a few others I run into now and again, but that's all it has been until now just talk, we've all had such a battering in this recession, calling us risk averse is a bit of an understatement. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:07pm
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Gosh...how short are the memories of some of you (amongst the more frequent posters on here). I still have the scars from when that 'other' mag ran the sort of comparison tests you refer too and apparently wish for. Yes, you know who you are.... cast your minds back to the early days of the D-One and RS 100 and... the HALO. At the time I must have been one of the very first, if not THE first, person to have a reasonable time afloat in all three. Back then I thought that the D-One was simply superb, an amazing boat that all but re-defined single handed sailing. Nor was there anything wrong in the RS100, far from it, but in terms of sheer 'grunt' - the devoti boat was in a league of its own. But for the UK Club sailor, racing around the cans,the boat that to me offered stunning performance and (back then) the bests 'bangs for your buck' was the Halo.
Now I was lucky in that I had the freedom to write exactly what I though and did so, only to get howls of protest from a number of you on here along with suggestions that I should be strung up. It is an interesting perspective that 'TurnTurtle', nee 'Yellowwelly' nee..... would today recognise that writing about the boats on the back of having sailed them all is a very different kettle of fish to just writing about the boats - on here. From a personal viewpoint, my observation is that it has never been easier than now to get a test sail in any of the new boats. Do that and form your own opinions, you may well find that these then are at odds with what you read elsewhere Dougal Hooked On, The story of the International Contender Pure Magic, 70 years of the Merlin Rocket Simply the best; 60 years of the 505 ------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:43pm
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Did you sail any of them on the sea? I don't recall lambasting you then, but just query it now since the Halo hardly got a grip, was this Dinghy Magazine? I thought it had gone by the by before those boats came out.
In my experience of these things, relative tests, there are certain 'facts' that cannot be escaped. I've never sailed a Halo, but briefly owned the Blaze, if you are who I think you are, we met briefly up at that lake near Reading that caused all the Icon problems with its coastal handicap, I forget its name. Irrelevant to the discussion, my point, I do have one, to thoroughly tests boats they need to be sailed in at least three different venues, Inland puddle like that Reading one, a big open water like QM or coastal estuary like Minster and a South Coast club like Hastings, Bexhill, Us or Lancing for example, only then can you really get to grips with the pro's and cons of those things, they can be such different animals on different water and that's the problem you (and I jest)'lazy' journalists have.
You're also dealing with peoples passions, which in itself is a nightmare. So product testing, weigh them, measure them, sail them on three different waters, use a common tester but complemented by guest testers with independently written reviews (don't let them compare notes) then write it up. That's how to test stuff properly for mags and protect your back. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:46pm
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Dougal, Thanks for the insight. I guess my problem with that is that its comparing apples with oranges when you compare a Halo (which seems to of disappeared) to a 100 and D1 (please excuse my ignorance as I chucked all my magazine back copies last year thanks to the wife 'Kicking off', so cant remember the 100vd1vHalo trial). One of the things I love about MTB and road bike reviews is they review categories properly. So Sub £1000 hard-tails as an example. The sample size is huge and i guess as a market they get countless new models making it easier to find new models to review. They review the bike fairly in terms of what you are getting handling, value for money etc. with very limited (seems to me) brand loyalty. I get that there will always be tester opinion across a broad range of brands and products, that's human nature. But comparing a Single handed Kite hiker, with a unarig upgrade to an old design is not highlighting the best of that sector? In the dinghy world its easy to category classes, so comparative reviews should be easy? All this leads us down an Ally of needing a new consumer lead magazine. I guess it would be popular even in tablet format. Just needs someone with some money they want to waste!
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:46pm
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I like the idea of 3 boats, 3 testers, 3 venues, but it starts to sound pretty expensive, so who pays?
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:52pm
Great post again Graeme (whats going on, please post some bollox again soon so we can get back on track) One of the things i like in Mtb magazines is the 'long Termers' where staff etc. run a bike for a season, warts and all review of whats broken, what they have upgraded, what they love, what they hate. So much more balanced then one review on a flat pond, or somewhere where in frankly odd conditions something supposedly doesn't perform with a specific wave pattern! Christ there ar not many dinghy designs, so long term tests should be easy!!!! I wont say cycling mags have it all right, they still spout stupid articles full of inaccuracies, like the recent wheel size tosh. With different people riding different bikes with different wheels sizes then making a sweeping statement of whats best (just so happens to be what the market is pushing at that time)
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Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:53pm
Guess if its balanced and fair the magazine, perhaps if they did these things they would sell more copies and the cost wouldn't be a problem. increased readership may encourage people like RS to start advertising in the printed mag again!
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:54pm
I seem to remember paying to drive down to Hayling to 'test' the RS100, you don't need to pay folk to do what they love, you just need one person to oversee it and a strict guideline to what you do on a test to give your readers confidence, and you call out the bad points. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 2:59pm
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it sounds like a lot of work for not much return Graeme. I also don't know what kind of value it would really have as either a) a sales / advertising platform or b) an impact into 'group think' of dinghy sailors. In the end most will still buy, what is it, 'old dross' for class racing. And who can blame them... ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:04pm
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That's only because new stuff isn't marketed to them in a manner that accommodates impulse purchase. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:17pm
aren't most dinghy sailors devoid of the emotion that impulse purchasing connects with? ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:22pm
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It's difficult for me to tell, even though I can do it a bit better now, I still haven't committed to the Charisma By Pass Surgery required to be really good. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:40pm
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I think you need JimC to recount his tales of the dinghy show manning 'cool boat' stands- talk to folks for ages, enthuse them about different types of dinghies and sailing opportunities out there; then watch them walk over to the Laser stand and write a cheque for a new boat..... if RS aren't advertising in Y&Y, then there's good reason and they must perceive it lacks the ROI. I guess sponsoring Sailing Anarchy is different.... when was the last time you read one of their dinghy reviews? It's just crowd-sourced content..... and a good sh*t fight.
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:48pm
Der never? Didn't even know they did dinghy reviews, 1) They're dicks, 2) Mostly they're yank dicks which means dickness cubed, 3) Convicts go there and it smells.  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:51pm
LMAO
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 3:57pm
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So are you suggesting that the RS Aero - a thread was started on their by their Editor - is aimed at dicks? That's a little harsh.... even for the arsey choccy bar dinghy. ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 4:23pm
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http://sailinganarchy.com/sa-legal-defense/" rel="nofollow - I did find this just now whilst looking for anything interesting to read about sailing boats There wasn't much else..
PS they'll print anything if you pay them, check out the Weta thing. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Dougaldog
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 4:25pm
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Graeme - yep, sure did! Better still, sailed some of them in a variety of locations including the Med and Garda. Worth noting that whilst at Garda, I broke the D-one sailing it in stupidly windy conditions. All credit to devoti, for having fired bits of Harken and carbon across the lake, they said straight out "need to make it stronger" which they then went and did. Good plan guys, let an arse loose on the boat, if it comes back in one piece then the rest of you should be okay. On the subject of arse (holes) I was also once around for an SA boat test, I really don't think you'd like how they did it; Tom Gruitt in Y&Y is a damn sight more objective and honest about his views than that one 'reviewer' (I'll use the term here with care) could ever be.
Null - my particular aspect on this was to do with boats for the 'bigger boys'. I'm not talking about the 'obesity' issue but it is a plain fact that we're getting bigger (the debate elsewhere on the Cadet sums this issue up very well). But back then, when boats like the RS100 and D-One were pretty much ground breaking, it was, to me at least, worth looking 'outside the box' at the options. For the Club sailor who maybe gets half a Sunday and a Wed. night in the summer, plus the odd extra 'day' out afloat, the HALO ticked so many boxes. You don't need a kite to scare yourself sh*tless if you have that damn great powerful mainsail up there. Reaching in it gave you an adrenalin boost like sailing an RS 600! Now at the time, if you recall, the price tag on the D-One could make the eyes water, yet this was also at a time when slowly but surely the whole world seemed to be doing down the pan. So the option of buying a Blaze - a second hand boat probably, then sticking the Halo rig on it, gave the performance of a sub 1000 py at a fraction of the cost. I think that including the Halo in the comparison test gave the readers at the time far more of an insight into the options than just focusing on the other two boats. No matter, 'tis all history now, but it was fun at the time! D ------------- Dougal H |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 4:42pm
seriously though, would you really want to go to one of those soulless winter sailing events and have http://www.windsurf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/NWF14-59.jpg" rel="nofollow - this woman trying to sell you something spur of the moment? No I thought not... it's time for a limp bacon sandwich, a cup of she-ite instant coffee from the 'urn' and a bloody good whinge about the RYA ruining 'your' handicap, or some sodding sailmaker's jockey riding a lipstick class 'pushing the spirit of the rules'. ------------- |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 4:55pm
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That 'woman' looks uncomfortably like my niece.
She SUP races as well, but I'm sure she rides for Naish. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 6:12pm
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It is so easy to be partisan on any forum so I’ll try and keep it mostly factual ! Approx 30 of the original rigs sold (remember the Halo sail/rig were an option rig on the Blaze). It was primarily targeted at the larger helm. I think Dinghy magazine wanted something of a contrast to compare the D1 and 100 against. The surprise to us at least was how much they liked the Halo version of the Blaze ... and we had thought we were just there to make up the numbers ! It was not a major development for us really but we subsequently sold about 30 of the rigs but we had also made a rod for our own backs in the design concept. The issue was that nearly every owner also sailed in Blaze mode when racing on the circuit, and it did not matter if they were new to the class or existing. Not a bad thing in itself ... the real problem was that you needed a complete (longer) second mast for the sail and this obviously limited demand after the initial flurry of purchases for what most saw as an ‘option’ sail. Later when the Blaze class approved the carbon mast development it further inhibited demand as very few indeed could ever justify having two carbon masts. A year ago some of the pioneer Halo owners looked at this issue with us and ... to cut a long story short we re-worked the sail with input from Charlie C. of North. Many iterations later and the resulting Halo sail is very slightly smaller than the original Halo (11.5m) and is now fully battened. Critically it can now be set on ANY standard set of Blaze spars - alloy or carbon. It was released as a standard production item just last month along with the smaller 8.8m ‘Fire’ sail. Even prior to release we started receiving orders from both existing (Blaze/Halo) owners and to go with new boats. Blaze hulls / spars can now be used with three sizes of sail – Fire (8.8m), STANDARD Blaze (10.4m) and Halo (11.5m). Each are primarily aimed at particular user groups, most of who will still also have a Blaze sail. Perhaps Dougal would like another go? .... we are already talking
about a test day for ‘Fire’ with Y&Y but perhaps he’d like to revisit Halo sometimel.
I’m
absolutely sure it will not be to everyone’s taste and not be practical for all
anyway (it really does help to be on the
larger side with Halo) but if you have the required attributes and approach it
is a hell of a lot of fun. Is it worth a
try ? What have you got to lose ? Mike L. (Here is an original Halo ...)
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 08 Sep 14 at 6:43pm
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It's still a nice concept- I'd rather have one than a Phantom that's for sure! The option to change down to the regular blaze is also appealing. ------------- |
Posted By: Baron Greenback
Date Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 5:19pm
You would be right then. The author is running the class now! |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 11:06pm
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Ssshhh my crystal ball is clearing again, I see GRF about to moan about some thing, NW about to fall in love (briefly) with another class and fanboy will continue to be utterly predictable.... Derren Brown esque sometimes eh? Been banned from my local betting shop you know
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 30 Sep 14 at 11:36pm
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haha unlikely - I've been wisely advised they all have their compromises and considerations, and my pockets aren't deep enough right now to pick up a boat in the condition to which I've become accustomed... so I'll stick with windy boarding this winter. And btw- that's old news on here dude, do keep up at the (green) back. Oh, and did you not get the memo... banterful musings on the Yorkie Bar and its three confusing rigs will recommence in February, assuming anyone's vaguely interested in it by then.... In the meantime, positive love-ins for dinghy sailors by dinghy sailors, available on Facebook (search 'D-Zero') ------------- |
Posted By: Null
Date Posted: 01 Oct 14 at 7:18am
Guessing I'm fanboy, glad I'm not the only one whom is getting predictable. You obviously didn't see your own reflection In the crystal ball....
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