New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Multiple-Starts Sequence
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Multiple-Starts Sequence
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multiple-Starts Sequence
    Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by vscott

We have visited one club that uses the same class flag for all classes - very confusing if you have not got out for the start of the first class away.  We forgive them because of the beauty of the surroundings!

Why is it the preparatory flag that goes down at 1 minute to and not the class flag?  If it was the class flag then you would have a visual signal that you were in the last minute (only the prep flag) and the same number of flags to go up at the next manoeuvre.

Under the old pre-1995 system, the starting signal was the lowering of both the Warning and Preparatory Signals (and if the I flag was used to invoke the One Minute Rule, it flew with the Preparatory Signal, but the One Minute period was signalled by lowering the I flag.

The effect of both the old and the current procedure is that the Class Flag, which is the warning signal remains on-display for the whole of the starting sequence for that class or division, thus:
  • while there may be ambiguity about  whether your are in the first or last minute;
  • there is no ambiguity about which class is in sequence (except at the friendly neigbouring club which you described).
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Nope, they both came down on the gun, right or wrong. If there was another class starting 5 mins later, it was dipped. Can remember clearly, left hand on one flag, right on the other. Big pull. We also used to hoist the flags rolled so that a small tug would have them flying exactly on time. Most disappointed when I went to another club and they simply pulled them up on the hoot. That was the point for me where the noise started to mean more than the flag, whatever the rules say. 

I can't, of course speak for the practices at your club, but here's the rule:
 
RRS 1969 Rule 4 ( a )

... when classes are started at ten-minute intervals, the warning signal for each succeeding class shall be broken out or displayed at the starting signal of the preceding class, and

... at five-minute  intervals, the preparatory signal for the first class to staart shall be left flying or displayed until the last class has started ...
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 8:50pm
No we don't. Our first fleet to go is the fast handicap, then slow handicap then our cruisers/yachts. We had a few grumblings when we initially switched from 6,3,0 but after a couple of weeks it was like we'd always used 5,4,1,0. We only have a 3hr window to sail in so we are pretty constrained but it works for us. I can imagine that if you have 4 or 5 starts then it becomes a problem or loss of recalls.
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by craiggo

We have three starts, and use 5410. Don't recall having any real issues.

Then you don't have a 'Slow' fleet complaining about lack of racing time before the limit excludes them, and your race crews are immune from the overwhelming desire to converse.
Wilsonian SC
3000 Class
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 8:12pm
We have three starts, and use 5410. Don't recall having any real issues.
Back to Top
Medway Maniac View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 7:26pm
Sounds like 6-3-0 is a goer for us then, especially as we have a line of boards with each of the class flags on, which can be concealed or revealed by a 90 degree drop of its own dedicated P flag board. Dropping the P flag board a further 90 reveals the P below the class flag.

We have already long-since amended our SI's to send the naughty class to the end of the queue.
Wilsonian SC
3000 Class
Back to Top
patj View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 16 Jul 04
Location: Wiltshire
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 643 		Post Options Post Options   Quote patj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 6:45pm
At BCYC we do 6-3-0 with class flag at 6, blue peter at first 3 along with next class flag then first class flag down at 0 and next class flag up.... so each class flag is up for 6 minutes and the blue peter stays up until the last Go. Hoots every 3 minutes.
Even a single handicap start is 6-3-0 and it is all written into the local procedures and SI and it seems to work. Classes needing a general recall go to the end of the sequence for their restart.
Back to Top
vscott View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 181 		Post Options Post Options   Quote vscott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 4:34pm
We have visited one club that uses the same class flag for all classes - very confusing if you have not got out for the start of the first class away.  We forgive them because of the beauty of the surroundings!

Why is it the preparatory flag that goes down at 1 minute to and not the class flag?  If it was the class flag then you would have a visual signal that you were in the last minute (only the prep flag) and the same number of flags to go up at the next manoeuvre.
Mk IV Osprey 1314 Think Again

Kielder Water Sailing Club
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 3:39pm
Nope, they both came down on the gun, right or wrong. If there was another class starting 5 mins later, it was dipped. Can remember clearly, left hand on one flag, right on the other. Big pull. We also used to hoist the flags rolled so that a small tug would have them flying exactly on time. Most disappointed when I went to another club and they simply pulled them up on the hoot. That was the point for me where the noise started to mean more than the flag, whatever the rules say. 
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 14 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Back in the olden days, we had 10,5 go, and the next class starting 5 mins later. Class flag up on 10, Blue Peter on 5, both down on go.

Nah, P stayed up continuously.  If you Used the I flag, you flew it in addition to P, and dropped the I flag at the One Minute.

 I remember when clubs nearby started shortening that to 6,3,go, but the flag order stayed the same, but our club thought that a horrible, new fangled idea.
Wouldn't a black flag go up at the 3 minute in the 6-3? 

Presumably, but when does it come down?  does it get a sound signal?

These days, the rules will be set around the 5,4,1,go idea, but they really don't have to be if you don't want that.
Not a fan of 5,4,1,go. When rear com sailing at Whitefriars, I introduced a bell at approx 10 mins, to allow cups of tea to finished before the 5 (or, strictly, the 4). 1 minute is not enough for a quick wee, either! Been using it for 10 years now, I think!
Also, same flag is up from 5-4 as 1-0. All very well saying people should be organized enough to know which it is, but it can easily catch out less experienced sailors (and me...)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy