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chrisg View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by alstorer

there is perhaps something in this- to have an official World or even European Championships, the class has to meet certain ISAF critera, and file yearly reports to justify retaining the status.


Or if your class isn't numerous enough but still want to hold an "official" World Championship you could find another organising body that will allow you to hold a world champs without all the ISAF red tape, even though you might use ISAF stuff for your event, say rules perhaps. International Canoes anyone??

(It might not be as simplistic as I make out and apologies if that post offends anyone or info contained within is incorrect or way wide of the mark, it is merely a quite probably ill informed observation, rather than a critiscism, and as such may be completely incorrrect. I have nothing against the canoes and personally dont mind who their world champs is held under). Jim or Bob or any other canoe sailors please feel free to correct me if I've said something wrong...


Edited by chrisg - 14 Sep 11 at 12:38pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 12:42pm
Canoes are such an old class they pre-date the formation of the YRA (now RYA) and the IYRU which developed from it. Sensibly, they stuck to their roots. Open canoe sailing also is part of canoeing, not sailing - I'm not sure they even use the same set of rules, exactly. Rather more relaxed, I think.
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Posts: 842 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 12:49pm
Personally, the way I look at it is this:-
 
If a number of boats from a single nation decide to get together to have a champs, then you have a National Championship.  Same for Europeans (multiple nationalities accross Europe), and the same for Worlds.
 
What the hell does the ISAF have to do with it.
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 12:50pm
I think the IC meets the ISAF crtiterea anyway- the number of countries/continents the boat is actively sailed in isn't the same thing as the attendees to the champs.
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Skiffybob

Personally, the way I look at it is this:-
 

If a number of boats from a single nation decide to get together to have a champs, then you have a National Championship.  Same for Europeans (multiple nationalities accross Europe), and the same for Worlds.

 

What the hell does the ISAF have to do with it.


total agree...
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Skiffybob

Personally, the way I look at it is this:-
 
If a number of boats from a single nation decide to get together to have a champs, then you have a National Championship.  Same for Europeans (multiple nationalities accross Europe), and the same for Worlds.
 
What the hell does the ISAF have to do with it.
I think they would say that they are the international body which has been created by the national bodies to look after the interests of sailors and classes world wide. Therefore, a class scattered round the world can use the international body to ensure that the boat is the same all over the world and that racing is run as a "World Championships" to decide the best sailor in the world.
 
Whether the ISAF do this job well is another question entirely, but to me the concept of an umbrella organization is a good one.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 1:35pm
The Canoe is adminstered by the int Canoe Federation and uses their rules for what counts as a World champs. Number of nations participating at the champs is key i believe
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Originally posted by Skiffybob

Personally, the way I look at it is this:-
 

If a number of boats from a single nation decide to get together to have a champs, then you have a National Championship.  Same for Europeans (multiple nationalities accross Europe), and the same for Worlds.

 

What the hell does the ISAF have to do with it.


I think they would say that they are the international body which has been created by the national bodies to look after the interests of sailors and classes world wide. Therefore, a class scattered round the world can use the international body to ensure that the boat is the same all over the world and that racing is run as a "World Championships" to decide the best sailor in the world.
 

Whether the ISAF do this job well is another question entirely, but to me the concept of an umbrella organization is a good one.


yes they provide a useful service to RYAs of this world. But that doesn't give them authority over the definition of language.

If a group of sailors want to run an international event and call it their World Championship then it's up to them.... good luck at least they're doing something they enjoy. I will assess the credibility it deserves based on my own assessment for my own opinion, and not be told by ISAF what constitutes a recognised class 'world championship'.

Edited by rogue - 14 Sep 11 at 3:06pm
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 3:18pm
How did this get to be about Canoes? I dunno away from my keyboard for a few hours and herrings from the warm end of the spectrum end up everywhere.

Wing wang I didn't mean there were no Contenders, they just didn't exist in our club and now we've got lots of them, apparently back in the day Hythe was a bit of a Contender stronghold I've since been informed.

And now we're setting tiny little tight reach courses in strong winds for some reason, I wonder why.

As to the class table debate I thought might occur was concerning how many were actually considered classes and how many are just moribund 'gatherings' like say L4k's and L3k's for that matter, there must be more, but no way of knowing for the newcomer. He might look at that list and go hey that so and so class is good they've just jumped 60 at their nationals this year.

So maybe an adjudicated overview would help thin them out and focus folk on classes that are actually going somewhere for real and by that it means National and local events and boats being built regularly, with spares available without a drama (which precludes just about everyone except RS.)
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 11 at 3:23pm
seems like you need to read JimC's annual thread after the classes review guide.

It's a better judge of 'activity' than the Nationals league table.

Who gives a crap how many Musto Skiff sailors can take a whole week and two weekends off work and family duties and to go to their Nationals in Mounts Bay? But I'd rather know about how many new boats are being built, how many weekend events there are, what the training offering is like... this is the true measure of success.
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