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Laser radial sail price |
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turnturtle 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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 Topic: Laser radial sail pricePosted: 17 Apr 17 at 12:41pm |
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I would say the soft contribution replica sails have made to the overall 'de-nettling' of club grade Lasers across the globe are worth way more in real terms to the Laser sailing game than whatever nominal crumbs Rastegar gives via the overpriced rag.
Edited by turnturtle - 17 Apr 17 at 12:43pm |
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andymck
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 1:03pm |
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The pound has dropped a massive amount but this seems a mad price increase.
I guess I won't be getting a new sail this year after all. |
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Andy Mck
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blueboy
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Joined: 27 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 512 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 2:00pm |
I don't think you'd be in too much trouble with the lawyers for producing a plain white rugby shirt. |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 5:22pm |
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Most of the issues with replica/counterfeit gear is to do with trade marks and 'passing off' if you aren't pretending it's the real thing and it doesn't copy the trade mark of the original the law won't be interested. Laser can't copyright the sail dimensions or design (people have been making broad seamed sails for hundreds of years, and radial cut since long before the Laser was a twinkle in BK's eye) only their trademark. Thus replica Blaze sails can't carry the 'Blaze' logo but, as long as they don't there's nowt the CA or builder can do to stop another sailmaker making them.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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turnturtle
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 5:26pm |
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Given the sh*t fight just gone down in Connecticut, if Laser had any legal grounds to challenge the training sail market, then frankly they'd have done it years ago.
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Cirrus
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Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 6:32pm |
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Thus replica Blaze sails can't carry the 'Blaze' logo but, as long as
they don't there's nowt the CA or builder can do to stop another
sailmaker making them.
But when they do .. even if the typeface is 'different' or 'modified' they simply invite legal action as some may well find out before too long !! You can put what you like up your mast but not with someone else's logo or name on it.... A different point but it is also interesting that some clubs submit PN returns to the RYA that include pattern sail users as being 'in class' because locally they have decided to allow them to race within a class... A 'faster' or 'slower' substitute training sail could possibly lead to an inaccurate PN ... Discuss ! Edited by Cirrus - 17 Apr 17 at 6:32pm |
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G.R.F.
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Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 7:22pm |
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When we used to race our 'One Design Class' Boards in the Open class, the Class Legal sail was often substituted for a local built sail, so such a sail built locally to the Open class measurements which would be different to the class would often carry say an M logo, now it would be a very foolish manufacturer to attempt or threaten legal action to prevent that use, indeed to my memory it was never tested.
Handicap racing I see as the equivalent to our Open class, without the measurement restrictions of course, so I can see nothing any dinghy class could do to stop any of us using local built sails with the class insignia if we so wish. Certainly that outfit could not be used in class events, but what we do locally or even at handicap affairs is no one elses business other than our own and I fail to see any legal precedent that would be broken. Copywrite even, only just applies if someone is attempting to profit from it's use, so provided the owner alone sticks on a logo and the sails are not marketed as that classes sail it's not going to stand and the cost of such a case would be beyond the sensible pursuit from the confines of the balance sheets of most of the sailing company I've ever studied here in the UK. No I'm sorry if they wish to continue making ludicrously high margins from sails then they can only reap the backlash, full laser sails could be landed duty paid for 50 USD not so long ago when I looked it it with one of my then suppliers of windsurfing sails they are silly cheap to build and as for my own class I'm going to have a full technora or similar membrane sail built for half the price of the rubbish it comes with and I will enjoy sailing the boat the more as a result, that is their problem not mine.
Edited by G.R.F. - 17 Apr 17 at 7:29pm |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 7:42pm |
My point exactly, as long as it doesn't have somebody else's copyrighted name or design or trademarked logo you can make, sell, and use it with impunity. I'm not arguing the morality of it though. I do agree that clubs accepting replica sails and then submitting PY returns for them might distort the numbers but, most would agree that replica/training sails are usually a less carefully constructed copy of the 'real thing' so the 'serious' sailors of the boat would benefit from a slightly higher number (and add that even if the replica sails are faster the people buying them are unlikely to be the best sailing the boat). I agree with SMODs (and other One Designs) not allowing non-class legal sails at open meetings and championship events (it would make a nonsense of the 'One Design' ethic) but to try to discourage occasional club racers or non-racers having access to cheaper sails seems a bit counter productive. |
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Cirrus
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Oct 15 Location: UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 590 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 8:09pm |
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Does the RYA have a policy on 'class' submissions from clubs that include 'pattern' or so called 'training' sails for PN purposes? When you have a system that supposes an accuracy of approximately 1/1000 will these assumed 'slower' non-class sails lead to an obvious underestimation of true class speed and handicap ? .. or quite possibly vice versa ?
Another elephant stumbling around in the PN living room ..... 
Edited by Cirrus - 17 Apr 17 at 8:09pm |
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turnturtle
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Joined: 05 Dec 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2538 |
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Posted: 17 Apr 17 at 8:10pm |
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I think the RYA ought to be glad of the returns, replica or otherwise! Hardly an elephant in the room, rather a field mouse outside your tent in a campsite ...
Edited by turnturtle - 17 Apr 17 at 8:10pm |
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