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Overtaking boat? |
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Far away 
Newbie 
Joined: 21 Nov 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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 Topic: Overtaking boat?Posted: 22 Nov 05 at 2:19pm |
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So Scooby, prior to the start you can begin luffing a windward boat with any length of an overlap to leeward? Even if you aft of the now disregarded mast abeam position? On the boom thing, what if the gap between two boats is adequate for you to sail into, but only if the windward sheets its boom out of the way? I have looked at the rule book Stefan and even the rules explanations in the RYA's race training manual by Jim Saltonstall. Strangely, the latter refers repeatedly to 'mast abeam'. Anyway, surely this forum is a place where novices can discuss and learn about the rules and isn't just restricted to experts? |
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more 
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Posted: 22 Nov 05 at 2:01pm |
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But fair and a genuine attempt to be helpful. I like talking rules and in fact it can be hard to shut me up on the subject. But you need to understand the basic framework before having a conversation in a forum like this is going to be very fruitful. Seriously, read one of the books.
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Scooby_simon
Really should get out more
Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Posted: 22 Nov 05 at 1:49pm |
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As far as I understand it you have to give then time to avoid you so
you cannot sail into the back of the boom as it were. There is no
need to be mast abeam on the start line it is simply windward boat
keeps clear (once you give them the time to do so).
You cannot demand that the boom be sheeted in to make room for you to sail into a gap that does not yet exist. (cat booms rarely come outside the boat so this never really occurs on our start lines). But once you are overlapped the boat you can treat the boom as part of the boats width and demand that the boat luff up to avoid you so their boom does not hit your shroud say (or they can sheet the boom in). |
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Far away
Newbie
Joined: 21 Nov 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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Posted: 22 Nov 05 at 1:47pm |
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Harsh! True, my understanding of the rules isn't great. So what's replaced mast abeam? What's the cut off point at which a leeward boat loses/ has no luffing rights? Do you have any comments on my boom scenario? |
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Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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Posted: 22 Nov 05 at 1:37pm |
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That you ask Father Xmas for a rules book. It's that time of year and without intending to be rude, you seem to be racing without much idea of the rules. This is likely to end in tears. Here is a good book. http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1904475140/ref=pd_s im_b_dp_3/202-5137791-1475805 "Mast abeam" disappeared from the rule-book many years ago. |
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Far away
Newbie
Joined: 21 Nov 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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Posted: 22 Nov 05 at 12:53pm |
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Thanks for the replies. So, if I've already overtaken a boat to leeward prior to the start and have yet to establish luffing rights sailing into their boom puts them in the wrong. Provided that is, that they were given enough time to sheet in. What concerned me was if the boom isn't being eased by the windward boat, but is already some way out, can you really demand this be sheeted in out of your way if you've yet to establish luffing rights. Wouldn't this simply be the same as asking the windward boat to head up when your still aft of the mast abeam position. I'd thought that prior to establishing luffing rights not only can you not force the windward boat onto a higher course - only that they don't sail below their current one - but also that you couldn't demand that they sheet their boom in, instead simply ensuring that they don't ease it onto you. Any further thoughts? |
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HannahJ
Really should get out more
Joined: 23 Jul 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 861 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 05 at 9:11pm |
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Oh brilliant, thanks Jon, I've been done loads of times by overtaking boat. ha. now i'll fix em....
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MIRROR 64799 "Dolphin"
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail |
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Jon Emmett
Really should get out more
Joined: 15 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 988 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 05 at 8:18pm |
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There is NO OVERTAKING BOAT KEEPS CLEAR RULE! When a boat is clear astern it must keep clear. As soon as there is an overlap the rule becomes port/starboard or windward/leeward (if both on the same tack). However when a boat gains rights it must give the give way boat room to keep clear, as soon as overlap is established the windward boat must start to keep clear, if it cannot it was obviously not given room! Jon Edited by Jon Emmett |
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Far away
Newbie
Joined: 21 Nov 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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Posted: 21 Nov 05 at 7:31pm |
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Hi, this is my first post here. My query is at what point does the overtaking boat rule become over ridden by the windward/leeward boat rule? For example, take a situation before the start where a boat is overtaking to leeward but sails into the windward boat's boom. Let's say that in this scenario the windward boat has at no point altered course or adjusted its boom. Who does the turns? |
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