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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Oct 14 at 9:00pm
Hang on GRF, when you say you will run the kicker alongside the main sheet, do you mean down from the boom in the same place? What happens when you sheet out? Doesn't the kicker stay tight? I must be seeing this wrong!
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 14 at 9:50pm
To be honest i don't really see the problem on a singlehander with paired controls fitted in the conventional way. Sit on the side deck and pull it on with your in front hand. On the Tasar with its rotating mast their are a pair of blocks on the base of it's deck stepped mast but the system is operated by the crew who can reach it when hiked.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 14 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Hang on GRF, when you say you will run the kicker alongside the main sheet, do you mean down from the boom in the same place? What happens when you sheet out? Doesn't the kicker stay tight? I must be seeing this wrong!

It would have to be using something like the Laser cleating block so when you sheet out, the kicker would still remain cleated.

The Alto kicker is just below the main sheet block, but that obviously wouldn't achieve what I was looking for to pivot the boom right round the front as i was when I envisioned it.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Oct 14 at 9:53pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 8:46am
Ignoring the boat becoming massively unstable when the boom is swinging round, the only way to manage the controls is surely to keep them attached to the mast, and not coming back in the boat at all. It is the main sheet I'm worried about in that scenario, though?
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 10:43am
Sounds like e recipe for getting hung to me. How about a lateen sail with no boom and a continuous sheet?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 2:58pm
I have read this over and over and over and I still can't see what the problem is with a normal kicker and a mainsail that gybes like every other boat in the world!?

You don't see the guys in the olympics having trouble because of it, you don't even see the real down the pan sailors at some dodgy middle of nowhere pond having any trouble, so GRF, why are you with all your expertise and baffling knowledge about wind shifts and fitness having a problem!?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 3:12pm
A world class sailor can manage perfectly happily with a lot of stuff, but it doesn't mean it can't be improved. Variations in leech tension and a self centring effect from the kicker loads are genuine phenomena, and they are things that good design has to minimise. Its always worth thinking about whether there's something better than what's done now, and, hard as it is to believe sometimes, this is theoretically a dinghy development thread.

Cleating the kicking strap on the boom would indeed be one way of getting round some of the self centring issues. I'm not sure I can imagine liking it, but when I was young off the boom sheeting was a hopelessly old fashioned setup that I'd seen only on hire cruisers on the Norfolk Broads, and I wouldn't have been able to imagine wanting it on my dinghies...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 3:21pm
there is, perhaps, a simple solution

i) remove the sheets, fit a wishbone boom with spongy grip all the way around the mast & foot of the sail

ii) apply some pro-grip liberrally to the cockpit and side decks

iii) stand up, take the boom in both hands, control the angle of the sail by moving your body and arms

iv) decide the hull and foils are a bit too large, re-shape them, lets say for example, like a race board

v) re-cut the sail, perhaps to a more raceboard friendly pattern

vi) leave dinghy development forever and go back to plank sailing Wink


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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 5:01pm
I guess that is roughly what happened all those years ago - doesn't mean it can't happen again in a different direction.

I'm with Jim here - without discussions, the real gems can be missed. However, I still think the strong wind gybing problem is unlikely to be solved by taking the boom forwards - I've done that by accident a few times, and the results haven't been pretty.

For the kicker to stop doing what Jim describes, many singlehanded classes now bring the blocks in front of the mast, so the turning point is the centre of things, not in front. Seems a simple enough solution for what we currently need, if not for the future of sailing - the fullerautomatic dinghy.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 14 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by laser193713

I have read this over and over and over and I still can't see what the problem is with a normal kicker and a mainsail that gybes like every other boat in the world!?
You don't see the guys in the olympics having trouble because of it, you don't even see the real down the pan sailors at some dodgy middle of nowhere pond having any trouble, so GRF, why are you with all your expertise and baffling knowledge about wind shifts and fitness having a problem!?

Being young, dumb and probably not as full of what you should be or you wouldn't be dinghy sailing, I shall take pity and explain your collective problem.

Gybing the way you do at the moment is very inefficient when it comes to getting the flow re attached not to mention all the banging and crashing that goes on, so I have just wondered how it could be improved, I've been puzzling ever since before that v2 episode, and then the EPS came along and does offer a tempting pathway with its rotating mast and below the boom shrouds, several times I've messed with it, but I'm stumped with the mainsheet transfer. I've considered round the front travellers, double sided main sheets, but it simply doesn't compute yet, but where there's a will.

Why do it? Why not. I'm bored when not actually on the water.
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