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one duff tack

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JimC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:42am
Originally posted by L123456

I wonder what the variance is is say a reasonably large one-design fleet on finishing times?

Around 25% in every class I've ever looked at - or 250 points of PY.

The results from the last Olympics are fully timed, makes interesting reading...
http://www.sailing.org/olympics/london2012/results_centre.php

Now I think about it its kinda suspicious that the range seems quite consistent between very different classes and even similarly wide at the Games. I wonder if its as much dominated by a tendency of mark roundings to force everyone into single file as anything else? Maybe there would be a difference between long races with few mark roundings and shortraces with many. Might be an interesting thing to research.

Edited by JimC - 03 Oct 14 at 10:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 10:48am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

I find that the best duff tack is when you come out of the other side and miss the toestraps

And it always happens right in front of the clubhouse where everyone is watching.....
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:01am
I always took that to mean one duff shift, rather than the physical act of transitioning the boat from one tack to the other, I mean how can that go wrong? You shove that wiggle stick and round it comes.

I accept maybe in some boats in some conditions like mine with its full batten sail the flow doesn't re attach too quick in light wind, but the answer to that is simple.

Have a different sail made.

Edited by iGRF - 03 Oct 14 at 11:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:03am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by L123456

I wonder what the variance is is say a reasonably large one-design fleet on finishing times?

Around 25% in every class I've ever looked at - or 250 points of PY.

The results from the last Olympics are fully timed, makes interesting reading...
http://www.sailing.org/olympics/london2012/results_centre.php

Now I think about it its kinda suspicious that the range seems quite consistent between very different classes and even similarly wide at the Games. I wonder if its as much dominated by a tendency of mark roundings to force everyone into single file as anything else? Maybe there would be a difference between long races with few mark roundings and shortraces with many. Might be an interesting thing to research.

Only 5% difference for the Finns - which is not unexpected - you'd expect closer racing at that level.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hum3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:34am
Originally posted by iGRF

I always took that to mean one duff shift, rather than the physical act of transitioning the boat from one tack to the other, I mean how can that go wrong? You shove that wiggle stick and round it comes.

I accept maybe in some boats in some conditions like mine with its full batten sail the flow doesn't re attach too quick in light wind, but the answer to that is simple.

Have a different sail made.
 
From observing those when I've been running coaching, the old 'tack on the whistle' drill can clearly demonstate the benefits of tacking well and the gains possible...
 
Context does have a part to play here though too. A 'must make this tack perfectly into this gap of boats to lay the windward mark' is clearly more important manouver to get spot on than 'I'm on my own and should probably tack soon to cover the fleet'...
 
Pressure can make even well practiced folk feel like they've two left feet at times...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:46am
Originally posted by hum3

 
From observing those when I've been running coaching, the old 'tack on the whistle' drill can clearly demonstate the benefits of tacking well and the gains possible...
 

It has it's place, as does gybing on the whistle and and quickly expose bad technique and provide coaching points.

I do find that using a downwind slalom course can be a lot more fun for the people who are taking part especially if you set them off at 30 second intervals.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 11:57am
Originally posted by jeffers

 I do find that using a downwind slalom course can be a lot more fun for the people who are taking part especially if you set them off at 30 second intervals.


but dw slalom courses are a bitch to lay for a simple training exercise.... best reserved for snaking and carving moored sailing yachts in rivers and estuaries  Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:19pm
Unfortunately the tacking on the whistle exercise is often seen as a 'warm up', or not analysed properly.  Too often the tacks end up rushed and get worse and worse.  For me a better exercise is boat on boat covering, where a duff tack is quickly exposed, and concentration much keener.

Of course the absolute best is video analysis, but not everyone has that facility.


For me a good tack is where I don't oversteer, get my feet straight under the toestraps on the new side and get the boat flat and driving asap.  The reality is more that I will oversteer then miss the central kickboard and slide down to leeward without the grace of Jane Torville, leaving me an uphill climb to the new side where I then have to hoist myself out onto the wing...

Dont even mention the duff gybes,
the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:27pm
I was amused by a comment from the runner up at the IC worlds (in San Francisco) on another forum...
...if it was blowing more than 18 I was just happy if my boat was pointing the right way after a tack. If it was upright that was even better...

You have to appreciate that was not only the wind strength, but the matching wave systems that cause the problems...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 14 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by L123456

I wonder what the variance is is say a reasonably large one-design fleet on finishing times?

Around 25% in every class I've ever looked at - or 250 points of PY.

The results from the last Olympics are fully timed, makes interesting reading...
http://www.sailing.org/olympics/london2012/results_centre.php

Now I think about it its kinda suspicious that the range seems quite consistent between very different classes and even similarly wide at the Games. I wonder if its as much dominated by a tendency of mark roundings to force everyone into single file as anything else? Maybe there would be a difference between long races with few mark roundings and shortraces with many. Might be an interesting thing to research.


25% ... That makes people who bitch about a few points on py look a bit daft.
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