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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 11:59am
Thanks Jim.  Looks like a good starting point for us, but now we must wait for Brass's reaction!
Wilsonian SC
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 11:58am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Ah, see what you mean, Jeffers.

By 3-2-1-go, I meant we were having 3 minutes between starts, but with a flag-shift and horn every minute in the same sequence we use for 5-4-1-go.

It seems that many people using a 6-3-go rolling sequence such as you, do not bother dropping the prep till the end of the sequence.  I guess that's what you do if you're just using the P flag?

Are your club SI's available on-line?

They should be online but they are not, I shall speak to out webmaster!

Yes we keep the P flag up once it is raised and then drop it at the last start (we never have cause to use a substitute as we can usually identify boats over).
Paul
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 11:52am
These are my clubs SIs. We use 4-2-go.

11 Starting Signals
Starting signals will not follow RRS rule 26, but shall be according to the following
procedure:
Each race start will have a warning signal followed by a preparatory signal, the
warning flag being as advised in the clubhouse near the course board, and the
preparatory being code flag "P". Each signal will consist of the flag and one sound
signal. Times shall be taken from the visual signals and the absence of a sound
signal shall be disregarded. The warning and preparatory flags shall remain flying
until the start time.
For a race with a single start, both flags shall be lowered at the start time. In a
multiple start sequence, where the start of one race is the preparatory signal for a
succeeding start, then the preparatory flag shall remain flying, while the warning flag
for the race which is starting is lowered.
Starting penalty flags (I, Z or Black flag), if required, will be displayed instead of the
preparatory flag.The interval between starting signals is two minutes unless specified otherwise in
supplementary instructions for a particular event.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 11:43am
Ah, see what you mean, Jeffers.

By 3-2-1-go, I meant we were having 3 minutes between starts, but with a flag-shift and horn every minute in the same sequence we use for 5-4-1-go.

It seems that many people using a 6-3-go rolling sequence such as you, do not bother dropping the prep till the end of the sequence.  I guess that's what you do if you're just using the P flag?

Are your club SI's available on-line?
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 11:33am
No 6-3-Go for all fleets (with a 1 in case you are using  a subsitute as a prep). Would mean a lot of flag rasing and dropping though:

Fleet 1 6 - Class
Fleet 1 3 - Prep and Fleet 2 Class
Fleet 1 1 - Prep drop
Fleet 1 go - Fleet 1 class drop and prep back up for fleet 2
and so on.....

So the 3 for fleet 1 is the 6 for Fleet 2. Gives you 3 min between fleet starts.

1 min between starts is not enough, especially if you have a recall of any kind (IMO).
Paul
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 11:00am
Originally posted by jeffers


This is the reason why we still use our old and creaky custom box at Hunts. The lake it a bit small for the course to cope with 3 starts on a 5-4-1-Go (as fleet 1 would be coming through the line at fleet 3 were starting).
3-2-1-Go is probably a little short too if you are intermixing the starts. With 6-3-G0 you get 3 minutes between starts (meaning any stragglers from fleet1 are gone before fleet 2 is lining up). It works well and is why we still use it. The only thing that I wish the would do it have a 1 minute warning (and drop the prep as with 5-4-1-Go) but this would currently need to be a manual process to we cannot easily do it.

So you'd ideally like a 6-3-1-go-1-go-1-go sequence, Jeffers? Maybe just a hoot but no flag-shifting at the '1'?
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 10:14am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Thanks, Brass. I'm sure you are right, and if I were the permanent race officer I'd be automating as you suggest like a shot.

But the fact is that our ROs are different every week, most of them do the duty just twice a year, and many are no longer regular racers or even visitors to the club, so any system we introduce has to be completely fool-proof. The thought of them needing to find (it would go walkabout) an android tablet, switch it on and operate an unfamiliar app makes my heart sink, let alone what might become of a go-pro; we had a club-wide search for a printer cable a few weeks ago, which someone had 'tidied up'.

A repeat-countdown timer with auto-hoot is nonetheless something that might just work here, provided it is built-in and has just a couple of very well labelled buttons. We need to look into it.

This is the reason why we still use our old and creaky custom box at Hunts. The lake it a bit small for the course to cope with 3 starts on a 5-4-1-Go (as fleet 1 would be coming through the line at fleet 3 were starting).

3-2-1-Go is probably a little short too if you are intermixing the starts. With 6-3-G0 you get 3 minutes between starts (meaning any stragglers from fleet1 are gone before fleet 2 is lining up). It works well and is why we still use it. The only thing that I wish the would do it have a 1 minute warning (and drop the prep as with 5-4-1-Go) but this would currently need to be a manual process to we cannot easily do it.

There is some talk of getting an autohoot to replace what we have but knowing our committee this is likely to take years (it has already been talked about for at least 2 years).
Paul
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 9:49am
Thanks, Brass. I'm sure you are right, and if I were the permanent race officer I'd be automating as you suggest like a shot.

But the fact is that our ROs are different every week, most of them do the duty just twice a year, and many are no longer regular racers or even visitors to the club, so any system we introduce has to be completely fool-proof. The thought of them needing to find (it would go walkabout) an android tablet, switch it on and operate an unfamiliar app makes my heart sink, let alone what might become of a go-pro; we had a club-wide search for a printer cable a few weeks ago, which someone had 'tidied up'.

A repeat-countdown timer with auto-hoot is nonetheless something that might just work here, provided it is built-in and has just a couple of very well labelled buttons. We need to look into it.
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 14 at 2:10am
Regardless of whether you go back to 6 minute sequence, AUTOMATE

Get one of these

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paloaltophoto.starttimer

Run it on a cheapo Android tablet.

And/or get the club to splash for one of the various species of Auto-Hoot machines.

It's just dumb having humans watching clocks and pushing horn-switches.

And while you're at it, get a Go-Pro pointing down the start/finish line


Edited by Brass - 03 Nov 14 at 2:11am
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 14 at 11:16pm
Right, some feedback on this.

We were seduced by the apparent simplicity of the 3-2-1-go sequence, which merely replaces '5' and '4' by '3' and '2' respectively, and gave it a go at the start of our Frostbite Series today.  I acted as ARO for guinea-pig RO who is an experienced racer but only a twice-yearly RO; we run two-person race-box teams.

Once I'd convinced him that, yes, we really did sound a signal every minute, the procedure worked very smoothly, with me standing outside working the flag boards (and getting drenched) and him hooting away inside the race hut following the timer.

At the end of the refreshingly short sequence, however, we both had to admit that we were so committed to those tasks that we had not had the opportunity to survey the goings on around the start line, and in particular to distinguish between the boats which were starting and those which were preparing for the next start. That would not be such a problem except that in this series we run Long, Medium and Lapping courses, freely selectable by competitors, so that the starters in each cannot be distinguished by their class of boat or PY. Moreover, at WSC boats generally launch from the beach on the on-course side of the line, then sail to behind the line before their start, adding to the confusion.

Thus while it may be a goer at other clubs, especially if there are single-class fleets, it was too much for our two-man team to truly be on top of today.

So, subject to me preparing a set of amendments to the SI's, next week, we'll try the 6-3-go sequence, with the '3' of one class being the '6' of the next and so forth.  This should provide us with much more time to check what's happening on the water.  If anyone's club uses this and they can point me to a good set of SI's on the web, I'd be very grateful.
Wilsonian SC
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