Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
One turn penalties |
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Presuming Ed ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 24 Feb 13 at 12:27am |
One turn is more common in keelboats, where 2 turns, particularly in light winds - can be a huge penalty.
And the penalty in match racing is a gybe on the beat and a tack on the run. Taken at any time - you don't have to take it straight away (unless it's your second, or the umps have give you double penalty (deliberate breach), or given you one with a red flag because your infringement resulted in a change in control).
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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But then in match racing we are not talking about a "self-policing"sport. There is no provision to take a voluntary penalty. Competitors play to the whistle - exactly what we want to avoid.
One turn penalties work on short courses, or in keelboats which take time to turn. Adding the provision that additional turns may be taken until any advantage gained seems to me to be sensible. It is always infuriating to be fouled and then watch the guilty boat take quick turns and sail away leaving you behind trying to sort out the mess created. |
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Gordon
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rogerd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076 |
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I think we should go back to infringe and retire or be DSQ
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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"one turn" is also pretty common in fast asymmetric racing. Often with the penalty for hitting a mark entirely removed. A variation that I've also seen (though only occasionally) is that if a penalty is incurred downwind it doesn't have to be taken until the head of the spinnaker is below the gooseneck- ie you don't have to drop, spin and re-hoist. Ultimately, for class racing, these things are up to the class to decide what works for them. For mixed handicap club fleets, they are for the fleet members to decide what works for them. If penalties are too lenient and observance of the rules too lax the racing will cease to be fun. |
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Al |
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gbr940 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 198 |
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Can I just say it's 720 degrees not 2 turns - as per the RRS. This penalty is absolutely sufficient, a single turn does not penalise enough for the crime you may (or may not have committed). If someone doesn't do a penalty take them to the room or at least discuss it ashore and if it was a blatant infringement perhaps recommend retirement to the protestor.
This twaddle about keelboats who can't turn 720 degrees in light wind should is utter rubbish, any decent race crew can spin a keelboat/yacht almost on its keel with the right know how - 360 degrees isn't a big enough penalty for any infringement, in some instances you can actually come out better then when you started the penalty manouver. |
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RS400 GBR1321
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Therule was modified from720° to Two turn because it is easy to answer the question did the boat tack and gybe twice, wheras did she turn360° (and not 359°) was a difficultquestio to which giva an adequate answer.
Can't say I agree with classes which effectively say wait until it is convenient before taking your penalty. This is as much about seeing that justice is done. Gordon |
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Gordon
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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There are quite a lot of people racing long keel dayboats like XOD's, Victory, Sunbeams, which will stop dead in some circumstances, for instance if the wind is light but there is chop from wind over tide. A modern fin keel yacht is a different animal. But this is the dinghy forum. |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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It's not always justice though, sometimes people take a penalty because they are unsure whether what happened was their fault, there are times when you don't want people to be out of the game, just going through the motions for a poor result, you want to enjoy racing against them. Sometimes 5 turns would not be enough. Other times just tacking off would be fine by me. There can be a difference in club racing, where a boats only crime is to fail to predict what boats in another fleet or some other outside influence. But in most cases if the difference between 1 or 2 turns makes you not enjoy the racing, it's all out of shape. |
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gbr940 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 198 |
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Ah maaan - apologies you're correct, 2 turns...muchos apologies! I agree, some people take the micky and try and do it alot later in the race - black and white though:
44.2 One-Turn and Two-Turns Penalties After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn including one tack and one gybe. When a boat takes the penalty at or near the finishing line, she shall sail completely to the course side of the line before finishing |
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RS400 GBR1321
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