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Olympic Classes for 2012

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Ross View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic Classes for 2012
    Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 8:58pm

Originally posted by NeilP

Star mast breakages have nothing to do with the quality of the product. The rig is very delicate and punishes mistakes in a very expensive way. They don't break for the same reasons that a home-made carbon stick that's been "repaired four times already might break!

Actually theres several home made masts that have been around for years without breaks. Selden mast on the other hand, talk to Tim Noyce...

 

Why are Star masts so delicate? Isn't it more to do with that the mast is virtually unsupported downwind?

Ross
If you can't carry it, don't sail it!
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 9:48pm
Indeed. It is a thin section for such large sail area, but is well supported by the rigging. It's when you get the rigging wrong that they have a tendency to go ping ... Of course the thin section and all the rigging allows for exceptional control of mast bend and sail shape.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:16pm

Originally posted by Chris 249

Scooby - I don't know your target audience. However, as you said the first
two questions they ask is "how hard" and "how much" and "do they fall
over". In that case, surely we should promote classes that aren't too hard,
don't cost too much, and don't fall over too much. Of course, we should
promote fast boats AS WELL.

I am not saying that we should not support "slow" boats, I am saying that "slow" boats do not attract the 4-16 y/o's who I see at the ski center that do not CURRENTLY sail; thus for showcase events like the Ollies we should show-case boats that DO attact the youngters.

I totally believe we need to support the "slow" boats (back to skiing, the Blue runs) to get people on the water, but we need the Black runs; Off piste and Coulior riding in the ollies.

We have to catch people with the show and then get them into racing boats that are easy to sail (FIRST); this is what we have been calling the "slow" boats. 

 

I cringe every time I hear the "sailing is boring to watch", I showed some people I know the 9er and T race at the ollies and they changed their minds.  Will they sail; maybe, do they still think it is boring; no - Part of the job done.  

We may be at cross purposes, my view is that sailing is generally though of as "boring towatch"; "boats bobbing around going slowly and difficult to understand"

The 9ers and the last race of the T's DID raise the profile of the sport; some on this forum feel that boats falling over is bad for the sport, but it gets it noticed.

Note that above people asked IS it difficult (they are, afterall used to falling over when Skiing / Riding)

They did not state "it looks difficult" a massive difference IMO.

 

To help the sport by getting people to even consider LOOKING, we need something worth watching.  Slow boats are not nteresting to watch by people who do understand sailing. 

IMO, simple as that. 

Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 08 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

Lowell North, Bill Buchan, Mike Mcintyre, Mark Reynolds, Torben Grael, Robert Scheidt, Ian Percy, Frederick Loof, Paul Cayard, Buddy Melges, Dennis Conner, Tom Blackaller, Paul Elvstrom... Some boats advertise themselves.... 


Ian Walker, Mark Covell....


the same, but different...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 4:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote KennyR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 7:32am
Star masts... I've done two in recent years, so I will
speak from experience. The first was when we first got
the boat, and the previous owner had changed the runner
system to a 2:1 on the deck, but used cheap HA cleats.
We were beam reaching and the cleat let go. We now know
we need 2 x Harken 150s and a ratchamatic on the system.
We have had no problems since. The other mast has done
coming into harbour in Holland last year. As we rounded
up to drop the main, the mainsheet hooked a mooring
cleat on the leeward pontoon. We ended up pinned on a
broad reach in a F5 against the pontoon with no way to
get the power off. eventually the mast popped under the
load [it is a VERY big mainsail]. Talking the the locals
the same thing has happened to various other classes
too.
Why are they fragile? Well the mast is around the same
section size you see on a big dinghy, but is 10m tall
and carries around 25m^2 of mainsail on a 4.5m long
boom. The shrouds are 2.5mm rod and are on swinging
spreaders. However no class rules prevent you doing
other things. You could put in fixed spreaders, bigger
mast section and probably even a fixed backstay. But
that would not be as fast as the sweetly adjustable rig
we have now.
Despite all that, we have survived a race in 20-25knts
[actual not B.S. knots] at the Euros last year until the
forestay adjuster blew on the last beat; we have had the
spreaders in the water in a knock down and generally had
a great time. The rig is pretty bomb proof upwind - it
just gets more fragile as you go offwind and start
pushing the limits. Keep the rig back and the bend
positive and the rig will be fine, even through the
gybe. Let it forward and inverted and you go faster but
more chance of a breakage. Just like any piece of highly
developed kit, you can push the limits to go faster, but
carry the risk of a breakage.
Probably the scariest boat I have ever raced on because
of the sheer power and they way they sail. Great boats,
great racing.

UK sailors really do not know what they are missing.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Skiffybob

Interesting view from within the industry...


ews/isaf_ignores_experts_on_olympic_classes">http://www.boat
ingbusines
s.com/archive101/2008/december/news
/isaf_ignores_experts_on_olympic_classes



An extremely superficial article with no sign of any research whatsoever;
not something to rely on. There's no facts apart from a reference to ISAF's
decision and an un-named "sailing website" opinion piece.

If one does the normal journalistic thing and actually asks the top guys
from the big builders, they will normally point out what they've told
others (like me) - that it's their slower boats that sell and that most of
them have moved away from concentrating largely on skiff types.

And if you did what normal industry journos do, you'd look at the stats of
what's selling - and as Jim C points out, it's certainly not fast boats.
Whatever our opinions of what is attractive to people may be, the fact is
the quick stuff just ain't selling as well. When fast boats get as many
racers as Solos, Sabres, FSs, 200s and Lasers, they can start saying that
they know what the market wants.

It remains a bizarre fact that we are criticising the boats that DO sell the
most for not being popular enough, and praising the boats that DON'T
sell in such large numbers as if they were perfect for the market.




Edited by Chris 249
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Skiffybob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 10:27am

Don't chew my head off, I only posted a link.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 10:52am

I think that people have to decide what the object of the Olymic event is; to me it is not a marketing tool for the sport, not an advert to get people in.  what it is, is a competitive event to see who is THE best, in a number of representitive classes, across (hopefully) the full spectrum of the sport.

To be anything otherwise is to pander to the media (and certain manufacturers) and lose sight of what our sport is all about.

I run a sailing centre for the RAF, and although we have full courses every year, we have massive problems getting these L2 sailors to come back regularly.  Is sailing a L2K at Farmoor too difficult/too boring/too cold?  Or is it nothing like what they've seen on the TV? 

Exciting classes and coverageat the Olympics could get Joe Bloggs onto a Level 2 cse at his local water, but it wont keep him in the sport.  Chances are that all he wants is a little bit of knowledge to enable him to go sailing on holiday once a year! 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 08 at 12:09pm

Originally posted by Chris 249

And if you did what normal industry journos do, you'd look at the stats of what's selling - and as Jim C points out, it's certainly not fast boats.

Yes we all know that. What many here find unconvincing is that you go on to argue that Olympic TV coverage of similar slow boats would encourage more to take up sailing.

 

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