PY changes for 2014

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by Medway Maniac Why should an Alto be slower than a 505? 1) The 505 has a full jib, .... As I said if the committee had anyone on it that knew facts rather than conjecture, you'd have more realistic results.

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by iGRF it is also a fact that the Merlin Rocket is similarly faster than an Icon You see this is the trouble with personal opinions. I like to think I've studied a bit about dinghy design over the years, and I really would not expect the Merlin to be faster than the Icon, rather the reverse. However I would expect them to be close enough that differences in intrinsic performance would be completely submerged by differences in crew ability, suitability for weather and all the rest of it.

Jim, the Merlin Rocket has a kite, is wider, has better rig controls, hell there's an old Rocket on our lake goes everywhere in light winds with the kite up. As I recall when I researched the Icon with a view to putting a kite on it, the two sail plan is very similar, but these measurements on paper, can't be argued with, which is exactly my point, if you are forced to defend a decision, you point to the combined sail area, the length width etc and wether some hotshot lake sailing venue defies it or not, they are what they are..

Originally posted by iGRF Originally posted by Medway Maniac Why should an Alto be slower than a 505? 1) The 505 has a full jib, the Alto has a small self tacking jib, anyone who knows anything about sailing upwind would know the difference, long reaching banjo players who sail fetches up and down a river at right angles to the wind wouldn't have the first idea. 2)Off wind soaking low the monster kite in most conditions out performs sailing angles, with or without the wing wang. On two sail reaches the five oh jib wins again. Round the cans? Use the smaller kite, it's an option not available to the Alto. 3)Taking heavy water, the 505 has higher freeboard and deflects big waves rather than taking them over the lee side filling the boat. 4)More refined rig controls, rams, adjustable stays, 30 years more refinement in sail designs, ask the designer even he'll admit the Alto was designed to be slower not faster than a 505...

Thanks for the detailed description of why a 505 is better than an Alto. I think you've just answered the question of what boat you should get....

+1

Originally posted by tgruitt Thanks for the detailed description of why a 505 is better than an Alto. I think you've just answered the question of what boat you should get....

Tom. I don't think there has ever been any doubt about the speed difference, but as to which is 'better' the question should be better for whom?

Better for an experienced sailor, almost certainly, particularly one versed in all the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties intricacies of rig tensions, rams and countless ropes I still to this day have no idea what they are for, but for a newcomer wanting to get into the fray asap, the less complicated Alto is better, for all female crews it's better, for teaching an absolute newcomer to sail and turning him into an enthusiast for something that has changed his life, the Alto is better, which is what should be encouraged.

Old guard Bandits in their Syms, protecting 'their' sport and their knowledge base by handicapping these newcomers is not good for the long term of the sport, nor is the way all this crap is being presented, often by small minded folk with their own particular agenda, case to point the river reaching Banjo players up at Wilsonian..

I don't want to get bogged down by the Alto because it makes me look like an Axe grinding agenda driven t**t, I'm not, I seriously can see the bigger picture and want to make it better if only by discussing it on forums like this, precisely what these boards should be for, so we recognise each others issues.

It is a fact the 505 is faster than the Alto, the designer deliberately set out for it to be that way, depowered the rig, it was at one time going to be a hiker, when I bought it, I bought it knowing that. So it is wrong, wrong for the designer manufacturer, wrong for his customer, if a bunch of lake or river hotshots via a computer system, define it as something else and I'm sure there could be a legal course of action that could be taken, either by Devoti or Cirrus or the Alto builders against what could be argued as restrictive practises, I'm not sure but it most certainly needs looking at.

Edited by iGRF - 28 Feb 14 at 11:13am