Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Matt Jackson ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 13 Apr 06 at 12:50pm |
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And the fact that the RYA (only the governing body for sailing in the UK that's who) say it's a Monohull. Lets not have this debate again please.
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Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Chew my RS ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Oct 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 790 |
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How on Earth can it be a monohull? It has two hulls. I think your strapline says it all! |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Actually they don't. What they said in the document in question was that if clubs want to call it a monohull they can and if they want to call it a Catamaran they can. |
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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While we're about it, we can add the tunel hull scow moth to our list of under-rated boats. Unlike a Vortex, it is easily possible to progressively heel the scow, e.g. to windward when sailng on a run, or to leeward when sailing on the wind, which usefully reduces the wetted area when required. On the ther hand it can be kept upright for planing or if you get a bit nervous about stability, so it's fun when you're feeling brave, safe when you're not. It thus offers a unique and interesting sailing experience. From what I've seen at our club, the Vortex is difficult to sail consistently on one hull (and certainly not to windward on a run), and as reported above, it doesn't speed things up anyway when you do - not very interesting. I've often wondered whether the skiff Moths would have ousted the scows if the the rules had allowed more sail area - scows can generate appreciably more righting moment... |
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swirlything ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 25 Apr 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
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As a vortex sailor I thought I'd butt in to defend the boat - it's not as bad as its detractors make out
![]() I't may bear some resemblence to a cat, but it sails more like a mono - center sheeted main, and the GNAV not the cunningham is the main secondary control, and upright is the fastest way to sail upwind. The only time the boats are deliberatly heeled is downwind in light airs without the kite. BTW the favoured class description is a "Concave Monohull" ![]() |
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Also to jump in at the vortex's defence (dare i say anything) its actualy one of my more favoured big wind boats!! I recall sailing one in a solid Force 4 and had barely started to depower it (and i weigh nothing), Loadsa fun in the big winds!! Although ive not yet played with one with the kite attached so im thinking even more big wind fun!! Wouldnt sail it in less than a 4 though...... Edited by Doug.H |
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Matt Jackson ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 21 Sep 04 Location: Darlington Online Status: Offline Posts: 962 |
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I'm basing this on the fact that they list the PN in the monohulls section which I thought was a bit of a giveway (anoyingly I can't now find this document). Maybe you could point me towards the document you refer to. |
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Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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The general consensus from a Google on “definition of catamaran” is:
Or something along the lines:
So this is all implying 2 distinct hulls connected via a third (or more) frames / decks. But from this link: http://dict.die.net/catamaran/
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Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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"implying 2 distinct hulls connected via a third (or more) frames / decks."
Well, I dunno. How do we define "hull"? Flicking through a bunch of definitions of "hull" seems to show nothing there that really sheds light on the subject of whether the Vortex has one or two hulls. Lots of the definitions (saying things like the hull is the frame or body of the hull, apart from the superstructure and rigging) could be read to say that any cat is a monohull! Secondly, define "distinct". How distinct does it have to be? Obviously you CAN have a solid bridgedeck between two hulls, and it can all be an integral structure 'cause thats what cruising cats normally have. So a cat can have a massive full-length superstructure and be inseparable unless you've got a chainsaw around. If I got a blank bit of foam in the shape of a Vortex and I kept carving away at the tunnel, making the tunnel bigger and the hulls more distinct, I must at one stage get to the stage where it's a cat, no? But there's no way in the world (apart from a totally artificial measurement) that you could work out when it goes from being a mono to being a cat UNLESS you use the measurement used for over 120 years- a boat becomes a cat when it has an air gap down the centreline. Historically, there's no doubt that when these sort of boats first came out (back in 1898.....not exactly a new idea) they were called catamarans and were banned from racing. There's no evidence that it was an anti-cat thing per se - NY had a fleet of Herreshoff cats racing about the same time - just that it wasn't what was ordered. The Moths did the same independently in Australia and the northern hemisphere decades later, and they both used exactly the same definition. So with respect to the RYA, they are well out of step. Asking whether it can be sailed "like a cat" seems (for what it's worth) to just make the question more difficult. How does a cat sail? Many cats (cruising cats, many offshore racing cats, Hobie 16s downwind, A Class in big breeze) sail with two hulls in the water. Some cats have centre sheeting. And of course scows sail fastest heeled (just like many cats) but they're not cats. |
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